42 thoughts on “Those deceptive TESOL Mormons”

1. I went on a chinese speaking mission and came home with the intent to move to hong kong to teach english. Finding out that the people I was working with were doing it illegally, I opted out and found myself more interested in working on an education than going to china. I have many companions who served with me, who have either gone, or even stayed in china teaching english and other things. I even have one playing basketball on some team over there. They all loved the experience, many of them became tour guides. I would have loved to do a lot of that as well. But when it comes to that statement in the blog, I don’t think we are doing much damage. More than anything, China will end up more like the rest of the world when they hear about mormons, but it is not becuase of mormons, it is because of the other faiths out there.

   Chinese people don’t have much religion in their life. Basically it was banished by Chairman Mao back in 1948. So all the middle aged people and younger in China don’t have a clue about western religion. As it is being reintroduced slowly into the culture, the baptists, presbyterians, and other prodestant church’s always are badmouthing the mormons. Anytime we had an investigator start to seriously consider god and met up with a minister or member of another church who found out he was meeting with us, they would often be antied quickly toward us using lies and other heratics.

   As religion moves into china, I think we need to do exactly what we are doing. You will have people who will comment on their blogs that mormons are a cult, just as we see here in the US. But if people really want to know, they will find out for themselves.

   We are not shooting ourselves in the foot by doing that. There by far are more good things that are coming about than bad by returned missionaries and others going to places like russia and china. I could start to name them, but I won’t because I have already written too much.

2. It goes without saying that Mormons aren’t bribing someone to hire them. Some people are willing to say anything.

3. I’m not so sure it goes without saying… Members of the church have been known to use bribery before. The best example I can think of is mission presidents in South America using bribery to grease the wheels. That being said I think it does gp without saying that we aren’t some nefarious cult out to ruin people’s lives.

4. Clark, it’s hard for me to get too worried by a blog entry like this. Yes, it is unfortunate, but isn’t this what most people overseas think given that the first thing they hear about the Church is that we are a cult? I think sending English teachers there helps break down barriers. The process of bringing the fullness of gospel to China will be very similar eventually to the process in Japan and Korea and other countries: it will be slow at first with a few members here and there, and then there will be relatively rapid growth. I think Chinese culture with its emphasis on knowledge about ancestry creates an especially fertile ground for the gospel — eventually.

5. HL Rogers:

   I was referring to the specific accusation that we were bribing someone to hire only Mormons while concealing their identity from the University administration. Machiavellian stuff like that just isn’t the Church I know (kindly and incompetent).

6. HL, it is of course possible that a mission president or presidents may have bribed people at some point, but before making a claim like that, you better have your facts straight. Do you know people who have admitted actually paying bribes (which is against US law)? Have they admitted their fault publicly and asked for forgiveness or is this some exmormon.org source or do you have some friend of a friend who says they know somebody who once knew somebody who said he did? Keep in mind before you answer that there are US citizens who have gone to jail for bribing government officials in Latin America. I would be very skeptical of such claims unless your source is impeccable and public. I have known many mission presidents in Latin America, and all of them have been very scrupulous about following the law. Many Latin American governments would love nothing more than to catch a gringo paying off a public official.

7. Given that there are blogs of Chinese citizens who believe China liberated Tibet and their Internet access is filtered which leaves them unaware of many things, this person’s post is not surprising at all.

   They should be more afraid of the Western culture of crap fast food and big box stores that are invading their country.

8. Adeline, it is a horrible thing when capitalism comes along and actually offers consumers things they want to buy. Just horrible. We should ban it. People should only be able to buy things they don’t want in uncomfortable, dingy stores. And I say this as somebody who has not bought fast food in years. But I also know that you can tell whether somebody wants something based on how successful it is, and it’s certainly not my place to tell the Chinese what they should and should not eat and how they should do their shopping. The market usually decides that.

9. I had a different reaction to that blog than the other commenters here–it did make me sad and it did make me wonder if we’re (by we I mean the members of the Church teaching over there) not being totally open, honest, and professional. If they are hired to teach English, they should do that as skillfully, as responsibly, and as professionally as they can. They should also find out the university’s policy (if there is any) on sharing personal beliefs with students. It’s one thing if Mormon missionaries wearing name-tags offer English classes in their Church buildings–the people who sign up for those classes probably know a little about what they’re exposing themselves to in exchange for free English classes. But for students paying tuition and going to the best university in China, the teachers–especially Mormon teachers–should never use their position of authority to slip the Church in under the table. There are much better ways of sharing the Gospel. That said, I don’t know any of the details of this case–it’s possible that these teachers are being completely professional and that some remarkable students have discerned the Spirit in their interactions and have asked them questions outside of class that led to knowing more about the Church.

10. Naomi, I have known people who teach English for the Church in various countries. They given the “Salt Lake City Olympics” directive, which is to separate out the two issues between their job (teaching English) and their private life and religion. I doubt very much that anybody in China is trying to fool anybody. I think the Lord will direct people to them that may be open to after-hours religious conversations that will be very useful for spreading the Gospel in China down the road.

11. Geoff B, A lot of appealing things are legal that really suck for people in the long run. I didn’t say they didn’t have a right to those stores. I said they should be concerned.

    Thanks for your sarcasm and I’ll offer my own in return. Pardon me for forgetting there could be people reading who value money making no matter what the cost to others.

12. Geoff B and Adam,
    My comment was intended somewhat tongue in cheek because of the conspiracy theory feel to the blog entry, which I found very amusing–it seems like something Martha Beck might pen. However, I do have pretty credible sources for mission president wheel greasing. There is a great account in the Prince David O’Mckay bio taken from a first person account. I also have some eye witness evidence. I’m not sure it is as big a deal as you claim Geoff–maybe this comes down exactly how bribery is defined. I have found both through personal experience and through some studying on the subject in law school that bribery is often defined quite differently in differetn countries (both culturally but more importantly legally). What might be seen as bribery in the US is often defined as simply aiding the red tape in South America. It seems the dispositive fact is whether a payment was used to circumvent a law and whether payment was used to speed a process.

13. Yeah, I think you’re right, Geoff–I think most people aren’t trying to fool anybody. But I remember being so horrified on my mission when I’d hear about other churches–and missionaries from our own (mostly several decades before–safely removed from contemporary proselytizing!)–doing things like paying the bills of potential converts, making them think baptism was just a group activity at a picnic, sending them to other countries. Again, these stories didn’t necessarily come from reliable sources, but the issue that got me so worked up was the idea of someone having some sort of power or influence over someone, by virtue of money, authority, status, etc., and connecting the teaching of the gospel to an exercise of that power. It just doesn’t seem to make very strong converts.

14. My comment was intended somewhat tongue in cheek because of the conspiracy theory feel to the blog entry, which I found very amusing–it seems like something Martha Beck might pen.

    I’m assuming you refer primarily to the blog entry by the student and not my own 😉 . I am not a big one for conspiracy theories myself. However, I do believe that their are secret combinations and conspiracies, even if they are not nearly as convoluted or well organized (across multiple generations no less) as some people believe.

    We have a responsibility to actively correct the misunderstandings that people have of us. I don’t think that we should stop teaching English, but we need to be careful that we don’t give the wrong impression.

    And students should be careful that the organizations they sign up with to go teach English in foreign countries are on the square.

15. One thing that bugged me about the “Teach English in China/Russia/wherever” programs that were offered to Students at BYU and Ricks (Now BYU-I) was that the students paid to do it – often to organizations that made money from the teaching (If it was strictly charity work with free classes for the learners, I was fine with it). It seemed a tad unethical, though it was sold as “a great opportunity to build your experience and resume.”

    Also – though the official literature never said this, the recruiters often brought “this will help spread the gospel” – and my thought was “I just spent a lot of money to spread the gospel for two years – why should I pay you to do it agian, when you’re going to make money of it?”

16. I’m not quarrelling, Mr. Rogers. Wheelgreasing was never my point.

17. Adeline, sometimes I write things that seem very funny to me at the time, and then I realize later on that the tone did not come across exactly as I intended. So, you’re correct, the sarcasm I used was not very attractive, so I apologize for the tone. But I still think it’s very easy to say somethings “sucks” for somebody else. If it sucks so much, why do the Chinese want it? They want it because there are some people who believe it’s better than what they have. We could sit around all day and talk about how awful fast food is (and we would be in agreement there), but I’m not sure it sucks for the Chinese to be given the choice of eating it or not. If they don’t want to eat it, then McDonald’s will quickly go out of business in China. Personally, if I had a choice between nice, fresh Chinese cuisine and McDonald’s, I’d choose the Chinese food any day. But the point is there are many Chinese who would make the opposite choice, thus the success of McDonald’s in China.

18. J. Max Wilson:
    I was indeed refering to the blogger not to you.

    Mr. Greenwood:
    I should have separated out my earlier comment. Only the line about tongue-in-cheekness was meant for you. Simply attempting to agree with the humor you found in it as well–reminiscient of Ecuadorians accussing my missionary friends of being CIA agents and the steeple on the chapels being radio receivers.

19. The mega corporations opening up there are are not concerned with the Chinese having a choice. They are concerned with expanding their customer base. Same thing that happens in the States. I’m sure Chinese people love choice, who doesn’t? I don’t want them to not have a choice. I want them to be vigilant.

    While we all love our choices here, we are starting to be alarmed at all the small businesses going out of business and the obesity rate skyrocketing (in China as well). People have a right to choose. You’ll get no argument from me. People also have a right to recognize the long term consequences of today’s choices. I’d hope someone would learn from the mistakes other countries have already made. Then again, China wouldn’t know about those because they are sheltered from so much news.

    At least our church would have the Chinese people’s welfare at the heart of our goal being there – unless there’s some extravagant living the Quorums are doing with tithing.

20. Mr. Rogers,
    Yah. I was running down the street in Spain once for private reasons and people started yelling ‘the CIA, the CIA!’ I attracted quite a crowd. A friendly one, luckily.

21. What concerns me more than the big box stores and fast food invasions of other countries (and they do concern me) is how business is willing to do away with certain human rights and freedoms to gain entry into China. Microsoft among other companies must abide by China’s strict censorship and anti subversive laws to add the billions of Chinese to their customer base.

    China’s culture has been one of denial. Official accounts still say that Tieneman Square never happened. Tibet was liberated from the oppressive religious leaders (no mention of the millions of Tibetans that virtually dissapeared overnight). China’s subversive police and censorship, hinder free speech which is ironic because that is the right that the Blogging world embraces. Yet industries like Google are willing to allow the censorship so they can get a foothold into their market.

    So, it is a concern that the people of China are on the recieving end of a mass economic invasion, its also interesting to remember that China is still communist and that the freedom to earn and change one’s status is greatly hindered. It concerns me more that companies, comprised of individuals with great freedoms are willing to sacrifice those freedoms to get their grubby little hands on the “red” market.

22. Geoff said:

    “I have known many mission presidents in Latin America, and all of them have been very scrupulous about following the law.”

    Your naivete betrays you.

23. Randy, it’s the easiest thing in the world to cast aspersions on anonymous mission presidents. Given the nature of their job — taking care of hundreds of often immature men and women — they are certain to offend some of them, who then carry around those alleged offenses the rest of their lives like badges of honor. So, it’s one of the unique features of the bloggernacle that people will pop up every once in a while and say negative things about mission presidents. Personally, I have been accused of a lot of things in my time, and some of the accusations about my character unfortunately can stick. Being naive is definitely not one that will ever stick, I’m almost sorry to say. I wish in many ways I were more naive, but given my life experiences, that’s just not an accurate description.

    My claim is based on facts and real people. I have indeed known many mission presidents in Latin America. I have spent a lot of time with them, gone to their homes and gotten to know them. They have been extremely scrupulous about following the law, specifically in this case laws against bribery. I’d be willing to go to court and attest to their good characters. Nothing naive about that. So, Randy, time for you to put your cards on the table. Let’s have some details. Give me names, dates, times and places. When and where exactly did Mission President X pay off public official Y and what was the purpose? Otherwise, your comments are nothing more than just the usual anonymous bloggernacle complaints about mission presidents, complaints that when you examine them have no substance to them and are usually based on resentment because a mission president once told a young missionary to get a haircut or follow the curfew.

24. Geoff:

    No mission president in his right mind would bribe someone; in places like Argentina they use lawyers to do it for them.

    Since you want names and dates, here goes. Mendoza Argentina, southern fall 1986, a missionary is accused of running over a boy with his bike, causing the boy to lose a testicle. The charge was completely bogus, but the Church’s attorney arranges for him to not be put in jail for what was ordinarily a jailable offense–the condition is he not leave Mendoza. The missionary promptly goes back to Buenos Aires and the it is arranged for the police to “not notice his absence”. The office buys the missionary a plane ticket to Uruguay where he will go if the lawyer isn’t able to make the charges ultimately go away by any means necessary, fair or foul.

    Again, the MP didn’t technically bribe anyone, but he’d have to be hopped up on goofballs if he didn’t understand or at least suspect what made the wheels of justice turn in this case.

    6 months later a missionary was jay-walking and was hit by a taxi; he flew in the air, landing on the front windshield of the car, shattering it. The missionary was miracously unhurt but the taxi driver wanted compensation for his window, which he was legally entitled to. He called the cops, and by the time they showed up he’d started complaining about being hurt in the accident. The cops took the missionary back to the station and called the mission president and weren’t very friendly about it. The MP called the same lawyer from the earlier case, who showed up at the police station in the middle of the night with the local commisioner’s boss, telling them if they didn’t let the missionary go not only wouldn’t they not get any money for the windshield but that the lawyer would see to it the driver never worked again. The police official who was with him discretely took the driver aside and told him to cut his losses and forget about the whole thing.

    Was the lawyer able to do that based on sheer force of personality? I doubt it. Did the MP or any other Church official know of his probable “greasing” of the system? Who knows.

    My wife worked, after her mission, in the Chilean court system. In her office alone, there was a file 4″ thick of allegations of misbehavior by Church officials in the purchase of land and obtaining necessary building permits. The complaints were all lying dormant, even though the facts of the case would seem to indicate there were at least some legitimate complaints. Did they bribe someone to make them go away? I don’t know, and given the nature of Chilean justice I seriously doubt it. But some influence was brought to bear to get the cases shut down.

25. Boy, Capt. Jack, it looks like you’ve got some real issues with the Church in Latin America. With all due respect, your two Argentina examples are somewhat comical. In case one, a missionary is accused of running over somebody with a bicycle (???) and you have a problem with the Church contesting it (????), and in the second case, you’re complaining because a taxi driver runs over a missionary and the taxi driver wants compensation (????). The taxi driver is probably lucky he didn’t land in jail. Laws against jay-walking are a little bit looser in Argentina then they are in, say, the United States, where they are also not really enforced. Argentine police are much more likely to look with sympathy at the guy getting run over than the taxi driver. (And, yes, I lived in Argentina during the 1990s, so I have some experience in that issue). There is a lot of hearsay in your claims about what the lawyer supposedly said and did. And in your Chilean case, I’m sure there are files that thick about allegations of misbehavior just about every time a new temple is opened. The issue is are they true, not whether there are allegations. Have you looked into the problems the Church had opening a temple in the Boston area, and how about the temple in NY that still isn’t built? I bet the files on those ones are much more than 4″. So, to sum up, lots of hearsay, no proof of any bribes or anything improper and a lot of resentment and suppositions.

26. Bribery happened in my mission (first hand knowledge). I’ve mentioned it before; and it simply involved speeding up the divorce process so that new converts could marry their current ‘spouses’ and get baptised.

27. My companion once crashed the mission vehicle into the back of a mini-bus. I paid the driver of the mini-bus to forget it and walk away, since neither my companion or I had full drivers’ licenses yet (though we had started the process).

    There is also a difference between using influence properly, settling disputes with money and bribery. Bribery of officials is a whole different ballgame than many of the suggestions here.

28. Lyle, I haven’t read your posts on this. Did a mission president go pay a judge or public official so that the divorce process could get sped up? Did a missionary go pay a public official? Or did the potential convert? I had several of those in Brazil when I was in the bishopric, and the way we handled it was to help them write their legal papers and then show them where they had to stand in line like everybody else. If you paid a small bribe, you didn’t have to stand in line, but if you didn’t have the money for the bribe, you stood in line. In all cases, the potential converts were poor and we never offered money to anybody.

29. Daniel, agreed. I know plenty of people in the United States who have settled their disputes on-site rather than going through the trouble of court cases. I’m not sure that’s bribery or improper in any way. Note that this whole thing started with comment #3, which accused mission presidents of bribery and implied that it is somewhat standard procedure (which would explain the China allegations). This is simply false and needs to be contested, imho.

30. Why do you say that Captain Jack has a problem with the church in Latin America?

    I can imagine a person believing that (1) in countries where bribery is routine, some church problems are resolved with some degree of bribery and (2) it’s ok.

31. Adam,

    1)Unspecified allegations like this are dangerous to the image of the Church, especially if they are not true.
    2)It’s not OK to bribe people in Latin America. There are Americans who have gone to jail for it (have you heard of the IBM case in Argentina, which involved several people going to the slammer?). In addition, it breaks local laws and is against what we are telling our potential converts in Latin America.
    3)I would agree that there is a normative difference between, say, paying off a police officer who offers to allow you to pay your traffic violation with him rather than going to the central office (something you both know is a bribe, but is routinely done) and other forms of bribery. Paying officials to “grease the wheels” (comment #3) could be a serious problem.
    4)We should be a “city on a hill.” A city on a hill doesn’t offer bribes but allows the Lord to arrange things so that problems will eventually be taken care of. Churches in Latin America have enough problems in terms of stealing members’ tithes. We should stand out for being unique and different.
    5)I don’t think any of Capt. Jack’s examples are very good ones, but I could be wrong. When I think of “greasing the wheels,” I think of some mission president sitting down with a government official and offering money for special treatment. I simply don’t believe that happens.

32. Geoff:

    First, you don’t know what my issues with the Church are, but I assure you they don’t happen to involve Latin American Mormons or missionaries.

    You ask for examples, then attempt to poke holes in them. These are not hearsay. I was involved in both of those I’ve posted here. I purposely left out the story of the “fixer” the mission was rumored to have at the Customs facility who expedited Church material through while others who couldn’t afford friends like him had their stuff rot on the docks.

    As far as the nature of the bicycle accident you seem to doubt, what happened was a missionary came around a corner and ran a little boy who was on the sidewalk over. His parents shortly thereafter appeared at the police station alleging that he had suffered injuries which resulted in the loss of a body part–in this case one of his testicles. They brought documentation to back up their claims. The missionary faced a potential prison sentence of 20 years.

    Money changed hands so the police wrote the “crime” up as if were an offense that was excarcelable, allowing the missionary to go free. Secondly, the Church took him out of the province of Mendoza and the police were paid to ignore his departure–this was a clear violation of the law. Finally, by buying him a ticket to Uruguay the mission president and staff were prepared to commit a crime by aiding a fleeing fugitive. The only reason the missionary was dealt with this way was money. In this case, paid by the Church’s attorney.

    If that wasn’t special treatment, I don’t know what is. Incidentally, I agree with what the Church did–it wasn’t legal, but it was right. What was finally discovered was the kid had been born without a testicle, and the parents along with a doctor had tried to pull a fast one in hopes of shaking a few bucks out of the Church.

    If you lived in Argentina, you know that any vehicle accident that results in damage to either of the parties is handled routinely as a criminal matter. In this case, the missionaries were at fault, hence potentially liable for the damages to the taxi. The fact that they were North American certainly didn’t help, and without the help of the Church’s attorney would probably have been shaken down for at least some money. Not only didn’t they pay, the Church’s attorney went above and beyond to make the taxi driver desist by bringing in his “friend” who was the comisario‘s boss. Again, friends like that don’t come out in the middle of the night just because, and the attorney sort of hinted as much to us.

    Since you brought up the Banco Nacion/IBM case, maybe you’ll remember that no Americans offered bribes or promised kickbacks–their Argentine cut-outs did. The investigating judge brought Americans into it because he thought it unlikely the activity could have gone out without their knowledge.

    Finally, if you’re going to set the bribery bar as high as you are–a mission president sitting down and offering money for specified special treatment–we might as well forget it. You win, but you know that isn’t the way the real world works.

    Not only are no MP’s that dumb, but it is highly unlikely any foreign official with any weight would be dumb enough to do it like that.
    What they do is hire cut outs, fixers, people with “influence” and have them make problems go away. Unless they never read newspapers while they’re there, they know exactly how these things work.

33. Somehow this got left out of my last reply:

    I don’t think you have too much to worry about as far as the Church and its image goes, at least as far as dishonesty is concerned. When men associated with Domingo Cavallo’s Mediterranean Institute moved into the Banco de la Nacion in Argentina in the early ’90s, they were nicknamed “los mormones” as much for their supposed incorruptibility as for their white shirts and ties.

    Sadly, they didn’t stay above corruption for long.

34. My mission had an “incidentals” fund that smoothed things over occasionally, or made it so the office didn’t have to wait forever for things to happen. For eight months my comp was financial secretary and nothing that I thought was out of line happened, but the fund was there. My experience with business in general in Latin America is that it is very different from things in the USA.

    I have a good friend that was financial secretary in the Moscow mission. They bribed people daily. He was amazed at how much money was spent on bribes.

    On the seperate subject of fleeing prosecution, we had at least one missionary that I knew of that was accused of assault. His companion had witnessed the incident and he had been attacked by a drunk, did not fight back, and was eventually pulled down on top of the drunk. Both were transferred the next day. When the police enquired as to his whereabouts he had an honorable release and a ticket home two months early. Rather than respect the Brazilian legal system the decision was made to simply leave.

35. Over the past 13 months, I’ve given out over 100 Chinese copies of the Book of Mormon. About 1/2 in traditional Chinese (for people from Taiwan, Indonesia, and Hong Kong), and 1/2 in Simplified Chinese (for people from China).

    I eat at Chinese restaurants and buffets often. I’ll put a copy of each flavor of Chinese on the table, along with the English, and see if the waiter/waitress says anything. Usually they do a double-take on it.

    I ask if they like to read Chinese, and where they are from. Based on where they are from, I offer them the appropriate copy, and also offer the English to go with it. I’ve learned you have to say “it’s free” up front, or else they assume you’re trying to sell it.

    Most of them comprehend the ESL aspect right there, but some I have to explain. More than 1/2 the time, the waiter/waitress will help me give pairs of books to the other employees. Everyone wants to get in on the act. Often, they start reading it right there, or back at the waitress/hostess station. Sometimes the ones who turn down the English will come back to me later when they see the other employees reading them in parallel. Sometimes the hostess will bring more waitresses over to ask for copies.

    Sometimes they dismiss the offer by saying “We’re Buddhist” but overall, I’d say I have a 95% success rate. Those who have been here a long time and are Americanized don’t get excited. But those who are fresh off the boat are usually very excited about receiving bilingual material.

    Other common languages found at Chinese restaurants are Indonesian, Korean, Vietnamese, and Spanish. My record is 13 books to 7 people at one meal. (I forgot to give an English to the Vietnamese chef at the Japanese Steakhouse.)

    Many ethnic Chinese grew up outside of China, so they can speak Chinese, but can’t read it, and then they usually speak/read Korean or Indonesian.

    The question “Do you like to read Chinese?” is then more polite than trying to find out with the blunt “Can you read Chinese?”

    I’ve been posting some of the stories of these restaurant placements at http://www.Mahonri.org

    The concept works wherever there are recent immigrants who don’t have easy access to material in their native language. Other fertile grounds for planting Book of Mormon seeds are gas stations (Middle Eastern and African languages), taxi drivers and airport workers (Amharic/Ethiopian), convenience stores (Middle Eastern and Meditteranean), and at the laundromat (everybody).

    I’ve given Books of Mormon (usually in pairs) to over 360 people in the last 13 months, in about 50 languages, from Afrikaans to Zulu.

    It also works for Gospel Fundamentals and the JS Testimony pamphlet when there is no Book of Mormon in that language, because the church translates G.F. and the JS Testimony pamphlet before the BoM. Those include Bambara, Bemba, Fulani, Kannada, Mandinka, Marathi, Pashto, Punjabi, Tshiluba, Somali, Twi, Wolof, Yoruba. I’ve met speakers of all those languages right here in Indy.

    Over all, I’ve met speakers of over 62 languages face to face.

    The Book of Mormon then becomes the “Rosetta Stone” for all 103 printed languages in which it is translated. (106 if you count English Braille, Spanish Braille, and the audio-only Quiche version.)

    Try finding Bibles in all those languages. Very hard to do, even though the Bible is translated into over 140 languages. (I forget exact number.) Taken together, even the International Bible Society and the American Bible Society have Bibles in only 70 languages. And many of them are very expensive. Igbo Bible: $13. Igbo Book of Mormon: $2.50. Such a deal!

    The Book of Mormon makes excellent and cheap ESL material!

    P.S. If your Chinese waiter ever brings your food to your table, and says “Behold!” you know what he’s been reading. 🙂

36. GreenEggz, you’re doing more good work than all of us put together who spend our time blogging away. Congratulations and keep up the good work.

37. (See message about Somali Bantu polygamists under Polygamy thread).

    When I found out there are Somalis in town (before I knew most of them here were Bantu) I put Somali and English copies of Gospel Fundamentals (a.k.a. Gospel Principles Simplified) in my car. There’s no BoM in Somali yet.

    When I meet African-looking immigrants (you can tell they are immigrants by their clothing, or by their accent or when they are speaking their native language), I’d ask where they are from and what languages they speak. I’ve given a few of them pairs of Gospel Fundamentals in Somali and English. Some of them were very excited to get bilingual material in their language, and some were confused.

    Well, now I know the source of confusion. I finally googled “Indianapolis Somali” and learned about the refugee Bantus being resettled here. There are two Somali dialects, the predominant and official “Af Maxaa” and the Bantu minority’s unofficial “Af Maay”. They are mutually unintelligible.

    I have an inquiry into the SL distribution center, but I’m guessing that the church’s Somali material is in the official and predominant Af Maxaa.

    If that’s true, then I’ve been giving Bantu immigrants material that is in the language of their oppressors who have slaughtered them and forced them into refugee camps. Oops.

    On the bright side, the U.N. says that less than 24% of the Somalis are literate, and the Bantu refugees are probably even less so, so hopefully they won’t realize what I gave them. [gulp] Also, as long as the English copy of Gospel Fundamentals is in their homes, maybe the kids will read it some day.

38. Update on the Somali Gospel Fundamentals question of which dialect was used.

    I put in an email to Salt Lake Distribution Center.
    He contacted someone in the translations department.
    That person contacted the man in Africa who did the translation.
    His response: “I forget.”

    I’ll take a copy to some local Somalis, and find a Somali translator in the local relief agency that is helping them, and ask them.

39. GreenEggz–

    Try the Swahili BOM for your Somalis. Swahili is considerend a Bantu language, although a lot of the vocabulary has Arabic origins, it maintains the Bantu structure. The Somali Bantus were never an integrated part of Somalian society (they had been gathered up from southern and eastern Africa to be traded as slaves and when the British stopped slave trading, were dumped in Somalia–generations ago, obviously) and I do not know what languages they used there, but since they have been located in Kenya for quite a while, many feel comfortable with Swahili. The local refugee settlers have expressed interest in swahili translators to me (my sawhili is laughable, but husbands is fluent). Your swahili/english combo might garner some interest.

    Good luck

40. ESO,

    Please contact me at greeneggz9 aht hotmail daht com.

    I’d like to recruit others to see if this BoM pairing concept works elsewhere, or if I’m just plain weird. I’ll send a few Swahili and English copies to you if you’re game.

41. As an ex teacher at Tsinghua, I can say that this article is true. A total of 4 Mormons worked at the University while I was there. Many Chinese schools have a direct pipeline for teachers at BYU. The Mormons routinely conduct “English Corners” to try to recruit Chinese students to the Mormon faith. This is part of the mission work.

42. Don’t be a religious bigot.

Comments are closed.