The great sacrament tray controversy

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The following letter brings to mind the famous line in “The Graduate” in which Walter Brookes advised Dustin Hoffman to invest in plastic. Is there no end to the inhumanity! No more metal sacrament trays!!!! If any bloggers can help this poor Saint, the world will thank them, I’m sure. This is especially crucial because I occasionally go to Orlando and Sacrament would not be the same with plastic trays.

Dear Editor,

I have been attempting to order new metal sacrament trays for our
ward and could not find them on the lds catalog website. I gave a
call to the 800 number and was informed that the church no longer
makes the metal trays only the plastic trays. Well, this is totally
unacceptable and I am not certain as to why the Church would
discontinue the nice metal trays for tacky plastic ones.

I asked the sister on the phone if she knew of any third party
providers and she stated no. I have not been able to find anything
on the internet.

Could you ask one of your bloggers to explore this as a topic of a
blog? I would like to know if anyone knows the reason behind the
change and also would like to know if there are any third-party
companies out there that provide alternatives.

Thanks.

Kevin Dion
Orlando, FL

Dear readers, the fate of an Orlando ward’s sacrament trays are now in your hands.

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About Geoff B.

Geoff B graduated from Stanford University (class of 1985) and worked in journalism for several years until about 1992, when he took up his second career in telecommunications sales. He has held many callings in the Church, but his favorite calling is father and husband. Geoff is active in martial arts and loves hiking and skiing. Geoff has five children and lives in Colorado.

46 thoughts on “The great sacrament tray controversy”

  6. When the Church is called upon to provide sacrament trays for 26,670 wards and branches, I can imagine that production cost and shipping weight become mighty important factors.

    The real problem here is not metal vs. plastic, but Brother Dion’s unrealistic expectations not being fulfilled.

  7. I always thought it was the noise factor. Plastic trays don’t clang the way metals ones do. Also I guess weight would be an issue. Lots of kids and older people might have trouble with the heavy metal trays.
    I don’t see why it’s an issue.

  8. I’d call up the church and try to find out who manufactured them for the church. Or, if you have some trays handy, check them. It’s probably stamped somewhere. I bet they’d sell them directly.

    I like the metal trays better as well myself.

    I should add that I’m curious who manufactures the cups for the church. It’s hard to find cups in quite that size (either plastic or the paper). They would be useful for other uses.

    (Confession time – as a Teacher we used to take them and put koolaid in them while preparing the sacrament, put them in the freezer with toothpicks. Then after church we’d get them out.)

  9. Starfoxy, metal trays don’t clang unless plastic cups are used.

    Although I’m told we switched to plastic cups because of the cost factor… it makes sense we would switch to plastic trays also. Is there any way to get a landfill-size-concerned GA to act on this?

    Clark, sacrament-size popsicles? Just when you think you’ve heard everything…

  10. Plastic is quieter than the inscessant rattle of hard plastic cups dropping on tin.

  12. You guys are all being sarcastic but this is a serious thing. I am really trying to find some metal ones. I have looked all over the internet but have found nothing.

    “When the Church is called upon to provide sacrament trays for 26,670 wards and branches, I can imagine that production cost and shipping weight become mighty important factors.

    The real problem here is not metal vs. plastic, but Brother Dion’s unrealistic expectations not being fulfilled.”

    Michael, the sacrament trays are bought out of the ward budget (or by a member as a gift for the ward). They are not provided free by the Church. It is not an unrealistic expectation to have the option between metal and plastic. Each ward can decide for itself.

    The sound of plastic cups falling on the metal trays is one of tradition. It needs to be maintained. Where will we end up next – with no children crying and fidgeting during the talks? These traditions are important.

  13. I was talking about the trays banging against eachother. Maybe we just had clumsy priests/teachers/deacons in my ward, but they were loud and rather distracting.

  15. My wife wants to know when we’ll get rid of the tradition of the snoozing/snoring bishopric members. Or, the little children waving to their parents and not singing at the Easter program. Or her favorite, the thankamony travelogue tell-all with TMI.

  17. “I should add that I’m curious who manufactures the cups for the church. It’s hard to find cups in quite that size (either plastic or the paper). They would be useful for other uses.”

    Clark, try a liquor store–I’ve seen some plastic cups around that size marketed as cheap shot glasses. (I’ve also seen them in some grocery stores.)

  18. The sound of plastic cups falling on the metal trays is one of tradition. It needs to be maintained. Where will we end up next – with no children crying and fidgeting during the talks? These traditions are important.

    LOL. Are you serious, Kevin? Please tell me you’re not serious.

  19. Eric,

    I am a convert to the church. I joined at age 19 (many years ago). I was raised as an Irish Catholic where we did not have crying children and the klink of plastic on metal. Are not these things uniquely LDS? However, my personal preference is for “crying rooms” in all the chapels like we had in mass. But as Michael points out, the cost for “crying rooms” for 26,670 wards would be cost prohibitive.

  20. I would like to respectfully ask that people give Kevin a break on this issue. He is trying to keep metal trays for his ward because his ward prefers metal trays. He’s come on the internet looking for help. Can we put aside the petty snarkiness just once and recognize somebody who is acting as a volunteer for his ward and trying to do something positive?

    Kevin, if you look at some of the E-Bay links above, there were some that truly were Church-approved metal trays. Look at comment #5 from Ian Cook.

  22. I would like to second the motion to go easy on Kevin. I think the desire for a nice sacrament tray is a good one. After all we are expected to dress up for church to give the Lord our best. And our temples use expensive, quality materials because they are the Lord’s houses. So it seems reasonable to me that the things we use to carry the symbol of the Lord’s body and blood should be nice too. And plastic really doesn’t cut it (although that it what my ward uses). I was at a megachurch a few Sundays ago and they passed the “sacrament” in these really sweet trays. They were metal and then the top with the holes for the cups was a thick piece of wood. Very impressive.

  23. Thanks you guys. I really am only trying to keep us from switching to plastic because I think the metal creates a more formal appearance. My Bishop is not as concerned but he has let me pursue this fetish.

    Geoff, I did check out the used ones for sale on E-bay. I was prefering to purchase some new ones. I think I am going to follow Clark’s advice and see if the name of the manufacturer is stamped somewhere on the trays.

    Thanks everyone.

  24. I am curious as to why you need “new” metal trays? Are the old ones rusted out or is the ward expanding and you need additional trays?

    I ask because maybe there is an underlying problem and there might be a solution other than “buy new metal trays.”

  25. Kevin #12: “Michael, the sacrament trays are bought out of the ward budget (or by a member as a gift for the ward). They are not provided free by the Church. It is not an unrealistic expectation to have the option between metal and plastic. Each ward can decide for itself.”

    Yes, but ward budget funds still come from tithing donations. Ultimately the extra cost of production and shipping is still borne by tithepayers.

    Katie #22 mentions temples, which I would consider an obvious exception to the rule.

  26. dp,

    Our existing metal trays are fine but we only have five sets. We need at least eight. The others were “borrowed” by other wards over the past few years when we had combined events. I wanted to replace them all at once. The “alternative” solution would be to go to the other chapels and “borrow” them back but the stake was recently split (we now have four stakes in Orlando) and it would be difficult to do. Does your ward have extra they can send?

    Micheal,

    I don’t see why the Temple would be an exception to the rule. The chapel and sacrament meeting is just as sacred an event.

  27. Kevin #26: “I don’t see why the Temple would be an exception to the rule. The chapel and sacrament meeting is just as sacred an event.”

    On that we will simply have to disagree.

  28. My $0.02.

    Recently I sat on a disciplinary council for a brother who once committed a very serious sin. This council was to consider whether or not his repentance was complete. He told us the details of his process; 15-months of Hell he called it. Especially difficult for him, he said, was Sacrament Meeting; his weekly reminder of his ineligibility to partake of the Sacrament.

    The Spirit strongly testified to us that this man had been forgiven and was ready to be re-baptized into the Lord’s Church. That good brother wasn’t the only one crying tears of joy when the Stake President announced the council’s decision.

    He was re-baptized last Sunday evening. This Sunday will be his first opportunity to participate in the ordinance of the Sacrament in 15-months. It’s Ward Conference in that particular ward this weekend, so I’ll be there as this good brother joins his family in partaking of the bread and water and renewing his freshly-made covenants.

    I doubt very highly that he will concern himself with whether the tray he is passed is metal or plastic.

    The Sacrament is an ordinance, not a ceremony. It could be done with paper plates and Dixie cups and still be efficacious and appropriate (as long as it is administered by the proper authority, of course). I, along with my fellow Saints, am a fallen man and need to renew my covenants, perfect my personal repentance, and grow closer to my Savior through the humble ordinance of the Sacrament.

    The rest is window dressing.

  29. Sorry … our ward doesn’t have metal trays. We use the “pure white” plastic trays with clear plastic cups … which by the way still makes a nice sound.

    Unless you find the manufacturer or go on eBay, it looks like you’re stuck with “used” metal trays. Unless you hurry-up your touche, break-down and order some “2nd-rate” sacrament plastic trays, all those people in your ward will have to be patient during the sacrament with only 5 trays as opposed to 8. Of course, this could be a blessing in disguise … the ward has more time to meditate during the sacrament because the person in charge of getting more trays won’t buy plastic because he wants metal so that he can keep up the cup-falling-on-metal sound tradition in the ward.

    Honestly … this sounds like a made-up story.

    Thanks for the cheap entertainment today! 😉

  30. dp,

    I am so very sorry that you are having a bad day. I hope that you feel better soon so you can share your better side with us in the near future.

    Your brother in Christ,

    Kevin

  32. Now I’m really getting old. Growing up in the 1950s in the San Francisco Bay Area, we used plastic water trays that looked somewhat like the silver-plated tray that was referenced earlier. In other words, there was no bottom to the tray for the empty cups.

    So what happened to the cups after a person drank the water? When the deacons passed the sacrament water tray, they had a small basket for the empty cups that would be passed with the tray down the aisle.

    In my ward in San Mateo there was also a tradition of trimming the crust off around each piece of bread.

    I remember in the 1960s the Bishop asked the women of the Relief Society to bake fresh bread for the Sacrament. We were fortunate to have a great variety of home baked breads for several months. That ended when one Sunday a woman baked a loaf of onion bread for us to use in Sacrament meeting!

    When I was in graduate school at UCLA I worked as a professional organist for several churches. At the Lutheran church they used a wooden tray with glass cups filled with Manischevitz wine for use in their communion. I caught two of the young underage acolytes after the service, who were supposed to be pouring the unused wine back into the bottle with a funnel. Instead they were downing the “shots” in a back room! I was a bit shocked, not necessarily because they were being “naughty”, but regardless of what you believed, their pastor had blessed the wine for communion use as a part of the service.

  33. When I was a deacon/teacher we would sometimes feed the birds with the extra sacrament bread. Since we didn’t believe in transubstantiation, we weren’t concerned, as medieval scholastics had been, about this outcome.

    For an interesting discussion of the views of Luther and Melancthon on the presence or absence of Christ in the leftover consecrated communion wine, and what to do with it, see here.

  34. I’m with Mike #6–oh and Chad. I think you have too much time on your hands, Brother Dion. Although now, perhaps I’ll notice on Sunday what our trays are made of, unless I forget, which is probable.

    If a GI can take the sacrament out of his helmet, that’s good enough for me.

    Although, I wonder. Who are you, really, Kevin, are you just trying to play with our heads. I learned my lesson on Banner of Heaven.

    You guys, I think somebody is just trying to see how many posts he can engender on a stupid topic. I’m on to you, Buddy.

  36. I like the metal sacrament trays; I like all things pretty. But I hate ward buildings whose walls are carpeted in scratchy half-plastic burlapy stuff, and no one’s ever seemed to care what I thought. Someday, if I live really far away from a church building (I hope to have a house really far away from everything) and they let the husband and older sons (I hope to have those too) to have do a family sacrament service, we’ll have a metal tray. Even if it’s supposed to have been for snacks or something.

    Which reminds me. Kevin, try looking in a restaurant supply store. If all else fails, bring the photo from the Gospel Art Picture Kit (it’s also included, IIRC, with the Primary manuals) of the child passing the sacrament tray. They (the restaurant supply people) should have a better idea of who might manufacture something like that.

    Orlando is apparently home to the world’s largest restaurant equipment supply store. They seem very eager to please.

  37. Sarah #36: “I hate ward buildings whose walls are carpeted in scratchy half-plastic burlapy stuff….”

    Ah, but consider for a moment how many dirty hands are kept off the walls because it hurts if you do anything more than just brush against it.

    There’s a method to the Church physical facilities madness.

  38. I am surprised at how many wordy, sanctimonious, and nasty ways y’all have come up with to say “No.”

    Kevin — I don’t know, but I’ll ask. If I find something, I’ll let you know.

  39. Blain, Kevin is not a real person. They are playing with our heads here. I learned my lesson the hard way.

    Sarah, I’m in a sort of fight with the stake president because all the other buildings in our stake have those cherried up round plastic tables and we only have (and heck, we’re the stake center) those slivery wood things that you roll down the hall and put on top of other tables. I also asked him for several other things. He’s former Air Force and he ain’t taking no orders from a woman. That is one thing about men that chaps my hide, threadjack, sorry. shutting up now.

  41. OK guys quit talking about the noise, simply fold a paper towel in the bottom of the trays and all noise will cease.

  42. The principle that plastic is as legimitate as paper, water as wine, is true. However, that does not mean that there are not benefits to spending a modicum of effort to see that these things are done with respect, as Solomon’s temple also was, more especially so when the marginal cost is less than a rounding error.

    Metal trays are more stable, less noisy, and inspire a little bit more seriousness than the flimsy plastic trays, especially when the plastic trays are used with plastic cups. And furthermore metal trays when used with paper cups are quieter than than the same used with plastic.

    And the superiority and stability of metal relative to plastic is an excellent type of the superiority of the terrestrial to the telestial. A greater weight of glory, as the scripture says.

  44. Our Bishopric in Idaho asked today about the metal trays, and so I am printing out this email string to share with them the bad news. The white plastic trays discolor and the handles crack. The metal trays, especially when polished, were wonderful and dignified.

  46. 1 Timothy 5.23

    Genesis 14:18-20

    1 Corinthians 11:27-32

    Ecclesiastes 9.7

    yayin shekar oinos

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