How should we honor mothers and motherhood without hurting women who wish to be mothers, but are not? Specifically:
Should sacrament meeting speakers not emphasize motherhood “too much,” by avoiding statements such as motherhood being humanity’s most important occupation, or being the role that allows mortals to most closely mirror God?
If the ward decides to give token gifts on Mothers Day, should they be given to all women?
Are the issues parallel for Fathers Day?
The family is under such attack and so I think we need to do all we can to honor mothers. I think it is nice when they also give a flower to single sisters in the ward who never had children yet. I could not relate to how single sisters in their thirties and fourties that I knew felt about the emphasis on marriage and motherhood when I was in my early twenties and expecting to marry and have a family. Well, life so far has not taken that course for me. It is hard to go to a Stake Conference where the theme is families. I feel my reproach. However, speakers do try to interject things such as it being possible to have family home evening for one.
Though I am not a mother and may never be, I still have a mother and feel mothers deserve so much recognition. I marvel at selfless many mothers are. Just meeting the physical needs of children is so demanding let alone the spiritual and emotional needs. The influence a mother wields on the development and forming individual is endless. I hope all the mothers here have a very Happy Mother’s Day!!!!
Motherhood has often beein misunderstood in that women are called mothers because they have children. However, having been through the pain of infertility, I know how it is to long and to feel pain when motherhood is being honoured (2 days before mother’s day was when I found out my baby had died. That made that Mother’s Day rather awful, but I survived). But I also remember that I was called a mother in Zion about 8 years before I gave birth to my first child. Eve was called the Mother of All Living before she had her first child. This tells me that motherhood is not dependent on having children.
All women should be honoured as Mothers. Mothering isn’t birthing children, and I believe tokens shoudl be given to all mothers. I also think fathers should be recognised more, and I don’t think this really happens. Certainly not to the degree that Mother’s Day is recognised.
My two-year-old girl wil be hurt if she doesn’t get the token gift. After all, she’s a future mother. Shouldn’t she be honored?
[The preceeding is an expression of sarcasm from someone who thinks that the issues surrounding
Mother’sWomen’sFemale’s Day andFather’sMen’sMale’s Day are blown way out of proportion and lead to obsurdities such as the YW and YM getting the token gift.]I think honoring mothers is great — because mothers are, in point of fact, great. But as a non-mother (or, one who hasn’t got kids yet), I do feel a little weird getting honored on a day I’d rather reserve for honoring mothers like mine.
So I wouldn’t be insulted not to get the flower or the token gift.
At the same time, I’m a big fan of International Women’s Day, which gives me what I feel is a more legitimate excuse to demand gifts and flowers from all the boys who love and adore me. 😉
Any couple who gets their groove on can be parents. Big whoop(or sometimes big whoops).
The reason it becomes a church/religious issue especially for us Mormons is that we believe that the best of the best of us will get to make whoopie and billions of children forever and ever and ever. So when we honor “mothers” we’re conferring some type of celestial stamp on them already–they’ve multiplied and have been obedient.
However, motherhood is just biology. Let’s not get too excited about going where nature calls.
I always thought Mother’s Day talks would do better to praise less and encourage more. That is they probably ought be directed more towards husbands who aren’t really helping their wives that much.
I was shocked in my current ward to learn that no man I know gets up with the baby at night – not even on weekends. Likewise few seem to help with the housework. I get a list of chores each week on top of lawn and garden duty. I also take care of my son on weekends (except for a few feedings where I’m missing the necessary equipment)
I don’t say that to give an air of “I’m better than you” to my ward. Merely that I think I’m sort of doing near the bottom of things. Of course to be fair in a lot of cases the women say they want this. And I’m all for individual rights. And I don’t blame the husbands because its kind of an issue they ought come up with before the kids start popping up. But at the same time I think speaking over the pulpit a bit more that its an option is a good idea.
Flowers are nice. Service is nicer.
I think that if we focused on service *to* mothers there would be less of an issue to singles or childless couples. Further, everyone *has* a mother. So by focusing in on *your* mother rather than doing the “isn’t it great to be a mother” praise I think many problems would disappear.
Hear, hear, Clark! I couldn’t agree more. The talks on mothers at church seem to glorify mothers doing all the boring, but necessary things that keep the family together (getting up with kids at night, doing housework, fixing dinners, etc.), and thereby creating this expectation that mothers (or women in general) by their nature should be doing this kind of work, while the men are in the background cheering them on.
Anyway, I think more mothers would appreciate help with the kids, grocery shopping or fixing dinner to a $3 flower from Costco (however nice and sweet) one day of the year.
Clark Goble has a great point that it should be about honoring our own mothers rather than honoring ourselves as mothers.
Before I was married and had a child I always felt awkward about receiving “the flower” on Mother’s Day. By trying not to make you feel odd, they include you with the rest of the mothers, then you DO feel odd because you’re not the woman standing in the row in front of you with dark cirlces under her eyes who is now hanging onto a partially crumpled daisy while she and her husband wrestle their four children out of the chapel. It also didn’t take away any of the sadness of not being married or not yet having any children.
Prior to becoming a mother I worked as a nanny for a year taking care of three children, starting at ages 5, 3, and 14 mo’s. After that experience I thought that my own future motherhood (which I doubted ever happening) wouldn’t be too much harder than that. Ludicrous! Motherhood is an awesome and amazing stretch of all capacities as a woman, and this service that we do is definitely something that should be honored.
I don’t mind at all that women who have not given birth to a baby and/or raised a child get a token of motherhood, but I think that it can be taken to politically correct extremes.
Excellent question, Matt. The backlash I’ve heard about in various wards I’ve been in is not from women who have not had the opportunity to become mothers, it’s from those who are mothers. I guess to some when they hear people speak about their near perfect mothers there is a lot of guilt and insecurity that sets in. Personally, my take is I work hard and I’m all for a day to be appreciated for what I do manage to do. I may feel differently when my children are older and all the ways I ruined them are more apparent. 🙂
I think we are sometimes too quick to do away with things all together just to be safe. I understand why, but think there’s almost always a way to do it while being sensitive and inclusive.
Clark —
Looks like you need one of these.
Matt, we shouldn’t make statements to the effect that motherhood is humanity’s most important occupation and is the role that allows mortals to most closely mirror God. But we shouldn’t make those statements not because they might offend someone, but because they aren’t scriptural and aren’t true.
(Understand: I’m a mother, have chosen mothering as my full-time work, intend to fill my home with children, honor my own mother, and all the rest.)
Well, I tend to think that being a father and a mother is one of the most important occupations. So I’m not sure I agree with that Rosalynde. What bothers me is that we, as a culture, are very engrossed about talking about things – how bad they are or how great they are – but not too terribly excited about doing things.
Talk is cheap. Someone can tell me what they think, but I tend to believe what they show me they think.
Of course that comes around and nips me in the butt as well. Heaven knows I have a whole slew of things I’m slightly hypocritical about. But at least I can call myself to repentance.
Rosalynde, while such declarations may not occur explicitly in the scriptures, they have been made very clearly by the modern prophets and apostles. Years ago the first presidency issued a statement declaring that “Motherhood is near to divinity. It is the highest, holiest service to be assumed by mankind. It places her who honors its holy calling and service next to the angels.” (Messages of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 vols. (1965–75), 6:178)
President Howard W. Hunter reiterated this declaration in 1994 and Elder Russel M. Nelson reaffrimed it in 1999 in general conference. The same declaration has been quoted by many of the other apostles including James E Faust and President Packer.
By declaring their words to be false you set your own wisdom up in opposition to their stewardship and you claim equal authority to determine what is “true” and what is not and to declare that truth to others.
I remember hearing a very active sister who was a great role model to me remark after her first child that she never realized how much God loved her until she had her first child. I have not had any children as of yet.(still single) I have a mother who has loved me when I have not been so loveable. I have asked her to explain it to me before. The only explanation that she can render is that she is my mother.
I don’t think the issues are the same for Father’s day, because nobody gives a hoot about that one. Is there really anyone out there who even cares if they are remembered on Fathers Day? The false recognition of Father’s Day is more embarassing than it is anything else. I prefer to try and honor my father all year, and hope my kids do the same. I hope that doesn’t sound snarky… 🙂
I am not qualified, however, to comment on Mother’s Day. All I know is how I feel about Father’s Day, being a Father and all.
I can understand giving a flower to all the women in the ward to avoid giving offense, since it’s a cheap and easy way to avoid offending anyone. The only problem with it is that everybody knows that’s why the non-mothers are getting a flower.
I am slightly bothered by the practice, however. After all, if you avoid celebrating what makes mothers unique to avoid offending those who aren’t mothers, then you aren’t really celebrating motherhood, are you? I’m no mother, but as a father, I can testify that there is a world of difference between wanting to be a father and actually being a father. The joy is great, but so are the sacrifices and responsibilities.
I appreciate my bishop. He makes incredible sacrifices of time and effort to love and serve us in the ward. Not every man in the ward can be the bishop, but that reality doesn’t mean that we should honor and thank a man who wants to be bishop as much as the man who is bishop.
“I was shocked in my current ward to learn that no man I know gets up with the baby at night.”
Clark, that is really shocking. There are a few slacker dads like that in our ward, but I know many who get up along with, or instead of, their wives.
The only thing I absolutely hate hearing on Mother’s Day are long stories (usually read straight from Church magazines or LDS books while the speaker, often a young woman, cries) about flawlessly sweet women (whose children don’t appreciate them) who die (and are then appreciated). No holiday should be about guilt.
The only thing I really love about going to church on Mother’s day is the nice hunk of chocolate our ward traditionally gives to all the adult women. I always thought flowers were a bit hokey, felt strange accepting one before I was married or had kids, and disliked carrying it around for two more hours watching it wilt. But you can’t go wrong with chocolate.
For the first time, I have to disagree with Rosalynde. I think that motherhood is one of humanity’s two most important occupations, side-by-side with fatherhood. And, while there are many and varied experiences that people can have which “allow mortals to mirror God,” I think that most parents would state that through the precious experiences unique to parenthood they have had the strongest impressions of what the Lord must feel for us. Why shouldn’t this be said? What roles occupations are more important?
Allison – I’m totally with you on the chocolate!
There are a few slacker dads like that in our ward
What if you try and try and try to get up with the baby at night, you offer to feed the baby from a bottle so that your (nursing) wife can sleep, but she refuses because she has some notion that it’s important for her to be there. That can be very annoying- I know. Then it adds insult to injury to be called a slacker dad for it. Oh, well. I suppose each person has their own notions of the perfect father/mother. If they’re not guilting the mother for not being perfect, they’re guilting the father for being a “slacker dad” when he doesn’t get up at night. Always have to be heaping guilt on someone.
Oh, well. I got up with the babies the entire time they were being weaned, once I convinced my wife that weaning was actually OK. Maybe that counts for something. But probably not around here.
Every year for the last decade or so, I have lobbied the bishop of whatever ward I’ve been in (I’ve been in 5 different wards in that time) to dispense with the flower/chocolate/traditional token gift and make an announcement that the ward has made a generous donation to a women’s shelter or other service geared to women and children–it would last longer, avoid the awkwardness about women without children, and be more in keeping with the original spirit of Mothers’ Day–you do all know the history, right?
Anyway, no takers so far. We are a tradition-bound bunch.
Bad dad, if you were willing to get up with the babyand your wife wouldn’t let you, and you kept trying to convince her even after she let you off the hook, you’re not a slacker, you’re a saint. But you do seem to have a persecution complex. 🙂
I nursed exclusively, but we arranged it so my husband would go get the baby and return her/him to the crib when I finished, which I thought was a fair division of labor.
“motherhood being humanity’s most important occupation”
(Well, I thought the most important task was loving the Lord God with all your heart, mind, and strength, and loving your neighbor as yourself. Because if it’s motherhood, I might as well go jump off a bridge.)
And I skip Sacrament Meeting on Mother’s Day (I’ve got lots of unpleasant memories of my own mother) so it doesn’t really matter to me what they decide to do.
Audrey and Clark: Ah, but to say that
motherhoodparenthood is the highest calling, mirrors godliness, et al, is to make an entirely different proposition! And one that I agree with, I think–but one that is certainly contestable. Fatherhood (as it is commonly understood and practiced) does not seem to have been the most important occupation of Christ or of Joseph Smith; nor motherhood the most important role of Queen Esther; and on we could go. These people are exceptions, certainly–but morally exemplary exceptions. I have no doubt that motherhood is my most important occupation, at the moment (and probably ever)–I have a distinctly unimportant church calling, and my day-to-day life makes very, very few ripples on the world at large. But I’m not entirely convinced, for example, that motherhood was my mother’s most important work: she was a noble mother to her eleven children, to be sure, but I think her years of work as a gospel teacher to literally hundreds of students will ultimately rival, in its beneficial effect on the world, her work as a mother.Jonathan: I assure you that I have no desire to challenge the apostolic stewardship of the men I sustain and revere as church leaders, and if I weren’t such an easy-going, laid-back gal (read irony here, all!) I might actually feel hurt by your uncharitable reading of my remark! I’m sure you’re aware of the fact that the corpus of apostolic utterances is vast and unsystematic, and that on many issues multiple issues can be defended behind a barricade of quotes from the brethren, if this is the tactic one chooses. Witness: “There is no higher authority in matters relating to the family organization, and especially when that organization is presided over by one holding the higher priesthood, than that of the father… In the home the presiding authority is always vested in the father, and in all home affairs and family matters there is no other authority paramount.†Joseph F. Smith, “The Rights of Fatherhood,†Juvenile Instructor, 1 Mar. 1902, 146.
Again: “Mothers play an important role as the heart of the home, but this in no way lessens the equally important role fathers should play, as head of the home, in nurturing, training, and loving their children.” –Ezra Taft Benson
Futhermore: D&C 84: 19: “And this greater apriesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the bkey• of the cmysteries• of the kingdom, even the key of the dknowledge• of God. 20 Therefore, in the aordinances thereof, the power of bgodliness is manifest. 21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not• manifest unto men in the flesh.”
I believe that the quotes you brandish were made in good faith, and your position is certainly understandable. But I also believe that, from the quotes I cite above and a host of others, at least as strong a doctrinal, scriptural and prophetic case can be made for the moral equivalence of motherhood and fatherhood, for the paramount role of the presiding father in social and doctrinal frameworks, and for the priesthood as the primary vehicle for manifesting godliness in the world.
When you co-sleep getting baby and putting baby back is not an issue. Not that I ever had imagined co-sleeping, but my wife insisted on it.
Rosalynde, doesn’t the doctrine of the Patriarchal order which seems intrinsically based on Fatherhood and Motherhood provide counter-evidence? Perhaps you might clarify what you mean by parenthood? It seems that the most common blessing in the scriptures is always tied to posterity.
Were I to describe the single factor that distinguished early Mormonism from traditional Christianity it would be that focus on the family as a key theological aspect of both godhood and our becoming like good. God becomes an eternal family and earth is on the model of heaven.
I think you’re trying to suggest that distinguishing motherhood from fatherhood is inappropriate. I’d agree up to a point. We certainly are a team and thus any separation is artificial and to a degree misleading.
However regarding your discussion of “ripples” I’d probably disagree. I don’t think the average “leader” makes much by way of ripples. Certainly not ripples beyond what any regular person can do if they simply serve their neighbors. Honestly I take the oft said comment literally. No success outside the home can compensate for failure in the home. I think that applies to those who think church service makes them important. Personally I think if we as a people have a flaw it is in thinking callings attribute more value to a person. To me that goes against everything in the gospel. (And indeed I think the ordinance of the washing of the feet tries to teach that)
Here’s hoping “bad dad” isn’t someone I knew and accidentally offended. (grin)
My point was less to suggest the “right way” than to simply suggest most men could do better. (Myself included, I must add — I slack way too often at times) As I said, if a couple decides the way to do it is acceptable to both, then I don’t have a problem with it. I might wonder about the woman not wanting help. But I don’t in the least criticize the husband.
Rosalynde – I don’t know anything about your mother or her teaching, but it sounds as though you greatly admire her. As her children, you have had the direct opportunity to learn and absorb her wisdom and character more than passing students ever could. How do you quantify the effect of a person on the world? I don’t think it can be known for at least a couple of generations.
I am the biggest grinch of all these holidays, I think they are just a way to make Hallmark richer. My husband enjoys celebrating, but I hate the fuss.
I have mixed emotions about the sacrament thing on mother’s-father’s day, because of those who are not married or having trouble conceiving, and how hard it is when they have lost a child. I like Kristine’s idea.
We need to emphasise the family, really, but like one poster said, my mother was less than a mother and we don’t have a close relationship. How do we find that middle ground? Should we?
I don’t know. But one year a guy who is very chauvinistic was in charge of the program and they handed out tomato plants. I wanted to throw it in his face. His poor wife.
I’d like to do away with Valentine’s, too.
My husband doesn’t like having holidays specified when he can show love and appreciation for me either.
Nonny Annony – Motherhood is not just biological. if you think that you msut not have children or have been seriously involved with them.
My husband is not a slacker dad either. We also co-sleep and our children are extended/exclusively breastfed, but when I am night weaning, Kim is the one who gets up with them. Heck, he is STILL the one who mainly gets up with them if they start hollering in the night (this happens periodically even though they are 6 and 4).
I do also think that Mother’s Day programs and probably Father’s Day programs can be very hard. It has been for me in the past. I don’t know how you fix it though. I believe though, that being realisitic about mothers is important. Boy, you hear all the virtuous extollations of mothers and how saintly theya re and it makes you feel like you will never come close. I like to know that other mothers have times of exteme frustration too, and it isn’t all idyllic all of the time (of course it isn’t) and it would be nice to hear this more from veteran mums.
Kristine, I, for one, don’t know the history of Mother’s day. Enlighten us.
Even the worst wife has to put up with a husband. That’s worth a holiday. Let it be called, “Wives’ Day.”
Hi, Ryan Bell-
Feminist Mormon Housewives currently has a good post of the history of Mothers’Day.
It’s never bothered me at all that my husband doesn’t get up with a baby in the middle of the night. I did get him up once or twice when they were older and threw up all over themselves and their sheets. But the baby months? No problem.
On my list of “I wish my husband would…” that never made it. I have wished (and asked and negotiated and compromised) for other help and my husband does his best to make me happy when it comes to sharing parenting responsibilities. I would hate to think that people thought he was a bad father/husband because he didn’t get up with a baby.
Because, as you all know, it is all a competition. Who can brag about their husband helping out the most.
But then there is the other competition. Bragging about how insensitive your husband is.
Ryan, I think the post at FMH leaves out some important parts of the history. What’s interesting to me is how the focus has shifted from the beginning, from looking at what mothers could accomplish politically and socially in the world, to focusing exclusively on what mothers do privately in their own homes. I’m inclined to view this change as a great loss. Here’s Julia Ward Howe’s original document proposing a day for mothers to gather and begin to assert themselves as a force for peace:
Mother’s Day Proclamation – 1870
by Julia Ward Howe
Arise then…women of this day!
Arise, all women who have hearts!
Whether your baptism be of water or of tears!
Say firmly:
“We will not have questions answered by irrelevant agencies,
Our husbands will not come to us, reeking with carnage,
For caresses and applause.
Our sons shall not be taken from us to unlearn
All that we have been able to teach them of charity, mercy and patience.
We, the women of one country,
Will be too tender of those of another country
To allow our sons to be trained to injure theirs.”
From the voice of a devastated Earth a voice goes up with
Our own. It says: “Disarm! Disarm!
The sword of murder is not the balance of justice.”
Blood does not wipe our dishonor,
Nor violence indicate possession.
As men have often forsaken the plough and the anvil
At the summons of war,
Let women now leave all that may be left of home
For a great and earnest day of counsel.
Let them meet first, as women, to bewail and commemorate the dead.
Let them solemnly take counsel with each other as to the means
Whereby the great human family can live in peace…
Each bearing after his own time the sacred impress, not of Caesar,
But of God –
In the name of womanhood and humanity, I earnestly ask
That a general congress of women without limit of nationality,
May be appointed and held at someplace deemed most convenient
And the earliest period consistent with its objects,
To promote the alliance of the different nationalities,
The amicable settlement of international questions,
The great and general interests of peace.
Well, clearly Julia Ward Howe is what everyone should read over the pulpit on Mother’s Day.
Besides international peace, which is a noble goal, what else would we earnestly ask “in the name of womanhood and humanity”? We’ve talked a lot about Mother’s Day talks and tokens in the bloggernacle, but what would our Mother’s Days prayers include?
Audrey, you’re right that it’s probably fruitless to try to quantify the long-term effects of one’s various endeavors, since the real outcomes aren’t apparent for so long (which may, in fact, also militate against the premise of the original post!). Like I said, I’m inclined to agree that, if we put motherhood and fatherhood in the same category, parenting is perhaps life’s most important effort. And as you point out, the longevity of the parental relationship is unique and really counts for something. Parenting may be the realm in which the moral character of the parent is most clearly revealed, and maybe even shaped.
But even though that all feels right to me, why then is parenting in the way that we talk about it–as a high-affect, highly interactive and wholly consuming enterprise–so absent from all the scriptures and Christ’s teachings? If this kind of parenting is indeed the most important of all possible activities, then we must at least concede that the prophets have come to this realization very late in the history of the world. Perhaps parenting only now has become such a morally charged practice because the multiplicity of family options has introduced a significant element of choice into the equation. But this is significantly different from asserting that “motherhood is humanity’s highest occupation,” et al.
Clark, I’m right with you on the centrality of posterity and patriarchy in LDS thought; just as you say, I think that’s a crucial difference between us and traditional Christianity. (It’s slightly less clear to me that motherhood is as central a topos in the patriarchal order as fatherhood is, however, but that’s a different issue.)
But when we talk about motherhood in discussions like these, we’re invariably talking about a set of practices–things we do to and for our children, ways we organize family life, ways we divide and perform labor. In theological discussions of the patriarchal order, we’re talking instead about relationships and genealogies–a sort of spiritual genetics–that are conceptually very distinct from the set of practices I describe above.
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful comments.
Being the near-constant companion of a woman who is never comfortable, always short of breath, and unable to sleep because she’s sharing her body with a baby (two of them, in fact) makes me especially aware of the honor and appreciation mothers deserve, even if they did nothing else, for creating each one of us, all humanity, in the first place. Everything we do depends on our biological lives, and in that sense we owe everything to our biological mothers, on whom our lives and futures were completely dependent; dependent on one, particular, specific person, a person we made uncomfortable, and far worse, no less: Mother. Or in my case, Mom.
May we never forget. And act accordingly.
Rosalynde, I’m by no stretch of the imagination a scriptorian, and I’ve probably misunderstood you, but I disagree that the scriptures don’t emphasize the importance of parenthood. I think it’s one of the central themes in the Book of Mormon. Lehi and Sariah come to mind as they did all they could to redeem their children. Alma and Mosiah and their dilligence to save Alma the younger and the sons of Mosiah. Alma the younger’s counsel to his sons, the sons of Heleman being taught and ultimately saved by their Mothers. Mormon and Moroni. These are some of them that came to mind that I feel illustrate the importance of a parent’s role.
A very good point, Andrea.
Andrea, I’m no scriptorian either, particularly compared to Julie! And if you misunderstood me, it was my fault, not yours–clarity is not one of my strong points.
The Book of Mormon, like the Old Testament, is essentially a dynastic record–that is, a record that follows a line of father-son priest-kings down through the generations, and in doing so conveys the history of a people. Because of the importance of genealogies in this political and religious system, yes, relationships between fathers and sons are crucially important: this is how priestly power, pure doctrine, and political authority get transmitted, and if the link between father and son is broken, things get complicated, both religiously and politically. As you point out so well, this is central to many of the narrative threads in the Book of Mormon.
Our religious and political systems are set up very, very differently, though, and power is no longer transmitted patrilineally. So while we value parenting for some of the same reasons that, say, the Nephites did–the family is still the primary school of the gospel, for example, and we still love our children and desire their welfare–in other ways our reasons for stressing the importance of parenthood are very different. One of these differences is our sense that parenting is an all-encompassing (or very nearly) practice, at least for women, that is mutually exclusive from other kinds of activities; what results is a competition between “most important” activities, and, sadly, a competition between women who allocate their time differently among these activities. (Indeed, this dynamic seems to structure the original post.) I don’t see anything in the Book of Mormon or other scriptures that suggests that they understood parenting in this way–indeed, I think our understanding of parenthood as something that forecloses other possibilities is historically unique: for most of history, children and childbirth were a natural and inevitable part of life that accompanied–not replaced–other kinds of endeavors.
I think if we were to ask Lehi or King Benjamin if motherhood was the most important of human occupations, they would look at us blankly, since they wouldn’t conceive of motherhood as something that’s in competition with other activities.
(By the way, Andrea, you didn’t misunderstand me! I just meant–I take the blame if I’m ever abstruse, which happens frequently.)
It is interesting that the scriptures don’t go on and on about parenting. I wonder why? Here are some of my thoughts.
First of all, since the family has been the basis for society since the beginning, it was probably too obvious in some ways to right down. It is only recently that having children is a choice, or that non-traditional families is a choice.
Secondly, building the kingdom of God seems to be the major theme of most scripture. This took precedence over family in many cases. In the early days of the church, for instance, husbands/fathers went on missions. Joseph Smith could have been a much more hands on father, without having to restore the gospel.
And then we look at what God does. If a child being born to good parents is so important, why does he let children be born to others? If having a mother and father around to raise them is so important, why does he let mothers and fathers die and leave their children motherless or fatherless?
Yet, isn’t that question our answer? The horror we feel that a child is born and left in a dumpster. That a child’s mother or father dies. That a father abandons his children. Or the idea that there are mothers who don’t love their children, who don’t protect them and raise them with love. It feels wrong. It feels unnatural. The thousands of children in the foster system never thrive, of course. They’ve been taken from bad parents and are placed in, much of the time, an almost equally bad situation.
God gave us an instinct to lay down our life to protect our children. How can that not affect our attitude toward being parents? I am sure all the prophets who wrote scripture were well aware of this phenomenon. Perhaps they didn’t feel it needed spelling out. I do not know.
The exciting thing about the Holy Ghost and personal revelation is that we can get our own confirmation about right and wrong. I can tell you that I have had many experiences that lead me to believe that my marriage and my role as a mother are my most important roles.
Absolutely crazy over the Will-King-Benjamin-Stare-Blankly Test. It just kills me. Brilliant. Would the King react if I asked him whether it’s okay to drink a bottle of Colt .45 or a Late Grande from Starbucks? Would he know about Kolob? Could he tell me about Heavenly Mother? Or Family Home Evening?
It’s not really fair to dodge Andrea’s point by exploiting the obvious historical differences between Nephite civilization and our own, all for the purpose of discrediting the view that motherhood is the most important occupation. The reason for continuing revelation is to keep pace with historical change…at least that’s what I think. The stories of parental relationships in the Book of Mormon are not included solely because of the patrilineal nature of their society, but also because Mormon saw them as appropriate to our day. Compare the emphasis on patrilineality in the OT with that in the BoM and I think there’s a clear difference. An honest reading shows that Alma and Mosiah’s concern for their children was not an effort to preserve the religious and political order, but to save their souls. Am I wrong?
Sure, parenthood’s not described in the Book of Mormon in quite the same way it is described in a contemporary sacrament meeting. What does that prove? It proves we don’t know exactly how Nephites viewed parenthood. That’s it. Their society could have had competing activities. We don’t know. But I do know that it’s dangerous to say just because it’s not seen in the scriptures, means it’s invalid (however, as Andrea pointed out, it is seen in the scriptures). And to make a litmus test out of whether King Benjamin would have any idea what you’re talking about strikes me as wrong-headed.
Septimus, I love your name (are you familiar with Tom Stoppard’s Arcadia?), and I’m pinkly pleased to have provided you with some entertainment. I’ve always wanted to be funny.
I invite you to re-read my comment, abstruse though it undoubtedly is. I’m not exactly sure what your overall objection is, but I think you will find that my comment in fact supports a number of your subpoints.
Rosalynde, thanks for your reply. You write beautifully and I have a great deal of respect and admiration for you and your thoughts. Therefore, when I read something you’ve written that I think I might actually have some evidence to challenge it, I automatically assume I’m way off base and totally misunderstood your point. 🙂
As Septimus said, the interaction we read between Lehi and his sons or Alma with his son, is very much applicable for us today, when it comes down to our ultimate responsibilty as parents. I think you agree with that right?
If you were saying that while parenting was obviously important and desirable in the lives of our ancient counterparts, when it came to their day to day lives they didn’t stop everything to “parent” — I see your point. I think there is a definite trend towards becoming completely kid-centric which I belive is detrimental to children. However, it can also be argued that society is vastly different today and though we are now afforded many time-saving conveniences the flip side of that is that times are now more perilous for children, both temporally and spiritually; therefore, sometimes we need to stop everything and parent.
As with everything, balance is the key. I’m too quick to justify my inaction on many fronts by telling myself my first responsibility is to raise my children. Yet, how much better would they be if they saw and helped their mother do more to build the kingdom, not just the house? And if we’re all so busy taking care of our own children, what of the motherless? It seems your Mother was able to find that balance in that she managed to shape many lives beyond that of her many children.
If the above doesn’t make a lick of sense, please don’t tell me, it took me like 30 minutes to write it. Parenting is getting in the way of my blogging 🙂
Andrea, you made a great deal of sense, as you always do! I like to think that my parenting actually improves my blogging, making me far more likely to post some half-baked or obviously-flawed remark that will generate a lively string of rebuttals. But I’m probably just fooling myself. 🙂
You’re kind, Rosalynde. I like your blogging/parenting approach. It would just sometimes be nice to be able to preface our comments with disclaimers like: “In the process of writing comment below, I was also… coaxing naked 2 yr. old to allow me put his diaper back on, taking a clump of 4 yr old’s hair out of previously mentioned 2 yr. old’s hand, picking up gerbil food that 6 yr old spilled all over computer room floor, etc.”
Rosalynde, people ask me about Arcadia all the time and I’m a huge Tom Stoppard fan, but I’ve never seen it, only read it. Not a lot of theater where I live. But Septimus is actually my real name (I’m the seventh child of parents that ran out of creative ideas I guess. I was afraid my younger sibling would be named Octimus, but luckily they stopped with me).
I’m glad you’re pleased pink over the fact I think you’re funny. Seriously, you’re a laugh riot. I’ve been reading your comments for a long time and I remember once you called some guy a croaking toad or something. I printed that one up and put it on my wall. I’m not even joking.
I did re-read your comment and didn’t find it abstruse, but rather crystal clear. How it supports any of my subpoints escaped me, as I’m sure my overall objection escaped you.