As many have probably already heard, the Church has removed all of its North American missionaries from Venezuela and reassigned them to other Spanish-speaking missions (see SL Tribune article). Political tensions being what the are between the U.S. and Venezuela right now, it seems to be a reasonable action. I don’t know much about the Church in Venezuela, but it seems to be quite strong there (a temple and 144 congregations) and perfectly capable of continuing on without too much of a blip as a result of the sudden drop in missionaries. I’m sure it will cause some short term difficulties in the missions, though, as people are shuffled. Hopefully, long term difficulties will be avoided.
I’m quite impressed that the approximately 400 missionaries were removed in 4 hours.
Thoughts?
I served in Venezuela 10 years ago, when I believe Colonel Chavez was still in jail for his failed coup attempt in 1992. Even then we had visa problems. From the time my tourist visa expired (60 days after arrival, I think) to when I left, I never had a valid visa.
Still, Chavez is a menace. I wonder if he has designs on our property.
RoastedTomatoes has confirmed that the Latin american missionaries will be staying.
The rapid removal seems unnecessarily dramatic. It isn’t as if Saigon were falling. Or maybe it is and I don’t know it.
John Mansfield, I’m not sure why it was so rapid, but maybe it was just a way to avoid drawn out drama. I didn’t read or hear about it before it happened, so it seems it was kept relatively quiet until it was over (or at least no press releases given). I can see how it would be simpler to just do it and get it over with rapidly and not have to deal with any waffling or questioning from members.
I served in Venezuela, bakc in the Caracas west, then the Valencia mission back in 93-95.
there was problems back then.
but this does make me sad…I really hope the native elders will be able to pull through this.
Andy
gst and Andy (or anyone else who served there) – Do you know what the ratio was of North American to native missionaries in Venezuela?
My son was one of the four hundred evacuated yesterday. They have been in lockdown since last Wednesday afternoon. He didn’t think any of the missionaries were expecting the evacuation though tensions have risen considerably since the New Tribes missionaries were evacuated. The church is strong the baptism rate has increased these past few months even though the number of missionaries serving has declined.
If I recall correctly, North American missionaries stopped arriving about halfway through my mission (sometime in 1995) because of the issues I mention above. They began to arrive again towards the end of my mission in mid to late 1996. The number of missionaries in my mission (Barcelona) was approximately 160 when I started, and reached a nadir of about 110. At that number the ratio of Venezuelan missionaries to North Americans tilted more towards the Venezuelans, though I don’t know if they were ever a majority. I doubt it.
That’s the long way of saying “I don’t know.”
It doesn’t help that a certain American religious leader has publically called for the assasination of Chaves.
I’d hate american religion too if it was threatening to kill me.
Maybe the prophet knows more than we do. I’d rather he erred on the side of caution.
Yeah, Measure, I agree with you. I wish that guy would shut up. He does us no good.
My son was one of the missionaries evacuated. The press is not telling the whole story and there is much more to the situation than it appears on the surface. The missionaries could not wear there name tags or ties and had to travel in their p-day clothing. Use your imaginations here. It is much more complicated than Visa problems.
The church has made an official correction to the Salt Lake Tribune article that said there were 400 missionaries evacuated. They said there were 220 from the four Venezuelan missions.
During the late 80’s, early 90’s, there were problems with the Shining Path in Peru, and all the North American missionaries were taken out. They were gone for several years, until the movement was suppressed.
Interestingly enough, the Peruvians stepped up to the plate, sent out many misasionaries, and a lot of leadership was developed then. However, there was also a lot of lack of supervision, which led to a number of leaders being excommunicated for financial malfeasance.
If non-native missionaries couldn’t wear their tags around, I wonder if it’s safe for even native missionaries to serve.
I’ve written up a summary of this situation including quotes from a mission president and a missionary who were released as a result of this, and a father of a sister missionary who was transferred. It also includes some background of the situation in Venezuela.
The article can be found here:
http://www.fullnessoftimes.com/forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30
Tahiti Boy has an interesting comment: “We were told not to say anything,” wrote President Rogers, “We were told that the Prophet and his counselors and the 12 Apostles had been in the temple all day and they felt it was time to take all North Americans out of Venezuela. Wow, we were really shocked and were still not allowed to say anything.”
I’ve got a feeling something big is going to go down in Venezuela in the coming months. Keep in mind that there are a lot of places that are just as dangerous than Venezuela on a day-to-day basis (the streets of Sao Paulo or Rio or Bogota or Mexico City, for example). But Chavez is inciting the population to hate Americans, and the rhetoric has reached a fever pitch. I wouldn’t want my kids serving there right now.
I was reminded recently (but before this missionary removal happened) of a quote from Brigham Young that I heard many years ago (1978) when I was a new convert: “The last days will be a period of great turmoil…. All we have yet heard and we have experienced is scarcely a preface to the sermon that is going to be preached. When the testimony of the Elders ceases to be given, and the Lord says to them, ‘Come home; I will now preach my own sermons to the nations of the earth,’ all you now know can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain, thunders and lightnings, and fearful destruction…. You will hear of magnificent cities, now idolized by the people, sinking in the earth, entombing the inhabitants. The sea will heave itself beyond its bounds…”
Whoops, sorry to get so wound up. But when I read that quote on the back of a church bulletin, I remembered hearing the quote that one of the obvious signs of the last days to us as church members would be that the Lord would call the missionaries home. I had quite forgotten, and felt relieved to know that such a visible sign would happen before things “got really bad”…. Then I read two weeks later that the Church has called home the missionaries from Venezuela. Signs of the times, or just a one-time, one-place thing? Probably the latter, but I will definitely keep my eye out! I am so grateful that the Lord has given us such sure leadership that we can look to in the dark times we live in.
“The missionaries could not wear their name tags or ties and had to travel in their p-day clothing.”
So Chavez unwittingly improves our missionary program and we our senile leadership is too dumb to take advantage of it? Where’s our Nephi when we really need one?
Steve EM:
I have no idea what your talking about.
but it doesnt have the ring of truth or enlightenment to it.
One of the missionaries who went to Chile from Venezuela told his Mom that Chavez had issued an arrest warrant for all “Gringo” missionaries. Blonde missionaries were told to wear a hat if possible. That is why they traveled in p-day clothing and could not wear name tags.
It is interesting that 18 year olds will be able to serve as missionaries. There are already several young men and one young lady who my son and his companions have baptized that are serving as missionaries. It is a wonderful opportunity for these young people to grow and serve. My prayers will be with them and the people of Venezuela in the next several months of country turmoil.
In response to comment #10….The prophet doesn’t err (IMHO)…he’s the mouthpiece…he’s word is more than fine with me.I need not speculate as to why?..how ’bout it?
Colleen, mother of returned missionary to Venezuela…Andres Salazar
awww..
my mom showed up.
*blushes*
I served in Venezuela from 81 to 83. In those days the Bolivar was 4.3 to the Dollar. Sad.
it was 200 to the dollar when I was missionary
I doubt Chavez issued arrest warrants for them, as they would’ve been arrested when they tried to exit the country.
I could find no evidence that an arrest warrent was issued for “Gringo” missionaries. It is *possible* that this occurred for the New Tribes missionaries as they were being kicked out of the country–but I don’t believe this would have been general to all such missionaries.
Those who have been on a mission know that rumors due spread. If this really did occur I would expect to see some news article on it.
I served in Venezuela from ’98 until 2000. The bolivar was at about 450 to the dollar when I got there and at about 700 when I left.
For 6 months I worked in the office and I was the secretary in charge of the passports. During this time none of the American missionaries were getting permanent visas, and it was a big concern. There was a full-time employee in the church offices in Caracas working on the issue. We tried several solutions including sending some missonaries to Aruba and back.
On one occasion one of our APs was imprisoned overnight because he didn’t have a visa. After I left I heard about other missionaries and the mission president being imprisoned.
Peggy # 16–I was aware of that quote but it certainly is pretty chilling in this context!
In response to #20, I’m afraid I disagree with this. A prophet (Bruce R McConkie specifically*) has told us that at any given point in time, any apostle (including the President of the Church) can go wrong, and even speak wrong. See “Are General Authorities Human?” by Bruce R McConkie on library.lds.org .
* “The Prophet” is just a sort of ‘nickname’ for the President of the Church. Every Apostle is called by the Lord as a “prophet, seer and revelator”.
Interesting how the SL Trib twisted the fact of “the church withdrawing non-native missionaries” into a headline that said “Church retreats from Venezuela.”
Is the SL Trib always antagonistic to the church?
It’s odd since the Trib had been of late far less like that. Of course its origins were very anti-Mormon. Some of the old issues from the 19th century are almost a crack-up to read. But the headline might have more to do with selling papers than necessarily any antagonism.
Got this in an email today–any thoughts?
As you all know, the church recently pulled all the missionaries from Venezuela, leaving only Venezuelans to continue the work.
What you probably don’t know is the hand the Lord had in carrying out his righteous purposes. One group of missionaries in Maracay Venezuela were told by their president to buy all new clothes, hair dye, and even some fake gold chains. They resisted, thinking it all to be a joke, but later submitted to the will of their divinely ordained priesthood leader. Once they were all dressed up, they had the feeling that the smallest of the 4 elders should dress up as a woman. A call to the president confirmed their revelation, and after a quick trip to the wig store and the purchase of a cheap second-hand dress the transformation was complete.
When the time came to flee the city, these elders walked out of their building and past a patrol of 3 local police. When one of the missionaries greeted the officers, he was surprised to find his thick Spanish Fork accent had vanished, replaced with the sing-song lilt of a native.
Later that day, a local member stopped by their old apartment. One of their neighbors told him that the police had stopped by just after the elder had left with an arrest warrant for them. They asked the neighbor if she knew the three people they had passed on their way in.
The fluency of the Spanish the missionary had spoken and the presence of the “woman” had apparently fooled the cops enough to let them by, and on to a flight to safety.
Truly these missionaries are the Lord’s annointed and he will look out for them in these troubled latter-days.
I saw it posted to the Nauvoo board.
My response? Eh. If the Lord worked miraculously to save his servants, I’m glad they’re alive. If he had not so inspired them, it wouldn’t shake me. If someone out there is spread faith-promoting crap again, “Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell.” (2 Ne. 9:34). (That’s also my cheating policy 🙂
En realidad las cosas no estan tan mal como creen en Estados Unidos, lo que pasa que los Norteamericanos son alarmista. El Sr BuSh, en el nombre de su supuesta “guerra contra el terrorismo” anda amenazado a todo el mundo con invadirlo dejando mal parado a Estado Unidos, pero todo el mundo sabe que eso no es verdad, lo unico que no pueden darse cuenta de eso son los norteamericanos.Este ejercito que ha atacado a Iraq, no es el mismo que defendio a estados unidos durante la segunda guerra mundial. No crean todo lo que les dice su presidente.Ademas con predicador instando al asesinato cualquiera realcionara ese hecho con la Iglesia.
In reality things aren’t so bad as they believe in the United States; what happens is that the North Americans are alarmist. Mr. Bush, in the name of the supposed “war against terrorism” goes threatening the whole world with invading it, leaving a poor standing for the United States, but the whole world knows that that is not true, the only one that can’t realize that are the North Americans. This army that has attacked Iraq is not the same one that defended the United States during World War II. They believe everything that their president tells them. Furthermore with that preacher calling for assassination, somebody might connect that act with the Church.
francisco [above] translated by Mansfield
Francisco, Ud. es miembro de la iglesia? Vive en Venezuela? Estariamos interesados en tu punto de vista sobre los misionarios en Venezuela. Como se siente la gente de Venezuela con su salida?
Francisco, are you a member of the Church? Do you live in Venezuela? We would be interested in your point of view on the Venezuelan missionary situation. How do the people there feel about the missionaries leaving?
As I recall two other countries had all North American missionaries pulled out in the 1970s: Vietnam due to the overrunning of the south by the North Vietnamese and El Salvador due to the increase in violence of their civil war.
Work in El Salvador continued with El Salvadoreans pulling the whole load until Carlos Amado was called from Guatemala to reopen the mission there in 1984. Vietnam, of course, was not so fortunate.
I seem to find it a little hard to believe that some Elders recieved revelation to dress as a woman. As funny as I find this story, I find it a little absurd. Where was this sent from?
hola, mi nombre es francisco y soy de chile.Estaba leyendo un mensaje del presidente Hincley, el citaba a un soldadp Norteamericano que tenia que irse a Iraq, este soldado decia que se sentia orgulloso de defender su pais, y del hecho de tener que defender su libertad, aunque me pregunto , porque por lo menos si yo estuviese en su lugar, no podria sentirme orgulloso de invadir e ir a matar a personas inocentes, niños y civiles como lo han hecho los soldados norteamericano, aunque me pregunto ¿de que defensa hablaba ese soldado si los que eran y son invadidos son los iraquies? ¿y orgulloso de que? de seguir los caprichos de un loco sanguinario como George Bush, ¿un hombre que se deleita en el derramamiento de sangre?. Cuando se hablaba de las armas de destruccion masiva que nunca se encontraron, ¿saben donde estan las armas mas grande de destruccion masiva?, no hay que ser muy inteligente para darse cuenta que se encuentra en Estados unidos. ¿Ahora la lucha contra el terrorismo?, si el terrorista mas grande que ha conocido la Historia se llama George Bush. Que parerico es ese soldado engañado, con poco seso como para darse cuenta que esa guerra solo fue un pretexto para invadir un pais. Con esto no defiendo a Sadan Husein, ya que el es tan malo como George Buhs, a lo que voy es que se ha matado a tantos civiles y niños en nombre de defender una supuesta libertad. Por lo tanto, para mi no fue un buen ejemplo esa cita que hizo el presidente Hincley sobre ese tonto y asesino soldado que tambien es un miembro de la iglesia, quien dijo que se sentia orgulloso de defender a su pais.
is president paredes still the mission president in Caracas?