I stopped by to visit a coworker this afternoon, and she had her granddaughter’s Girl Scout cookie order form on her desk. I’m always game to support the Girl Scouts, so I signed up to buy a few boxes.
I was a Girl Scout for a couple years – 5th and 6th grade – and I had a great time. I wanted to join a year earlier, but there was no troop associated with my school that year. After 6th grade, my family moved and I never got going with it again, which I kind of regret.
I loved learning fun and interesting things. I never went to any of the long camps, but our troop went to a number of mini camps (just one or two nights long) and day camps. I remember one mini camp at a Girl Scout lodge in the mountains in the winter. It was a lot of fun to play in the deep snow. We also learned how to dip candles, and it’s possible that my current love of candles started there.
My favorite mini camp was one involving learning about different cultures. We went to Salt Lake (we were a troop from Provo) and visited a synagogue, a French restaurant, and a Swedish bakery. There may have been a couple other stops, but I don’t remember them. The French restaurant was a little too weird for my 11-year-old tastes (escargot is snails?!), but the synagogue fascinated me. Most of my memories of Girl Scouts are snippets, but I still remember almost all of our synagogue visit. It enthralled me.
I’ve always said that if I ever have kids, I want to get them involved in Girl Scouts early. It’s a great opportunity to learn about different things, and it’s a lot of fun to do it with all girls. If they have a bad troop leader, then we’ll search for another troop and if, as they grow older, they want to bail and do other things, that’s fine. But in early elementary school, I’m signing them up.
To my great surprise, this alarms some Mormons – more than I would have ever guessed. I never had any inkling that Girl Scouts were considered non-kosher for Mormondom until I was an adult. My first surprise came on my mission. My companion and I were discussing something that somehow led to the topic of Girl Scouts. I mentioned that I had been a Girl Scout and loved it and would sign up my daughters if I had any. The look of shock on her face quite confused me. Her statement that she wanted her daughters to be involved in Young Womens not Girl Scouts further confused me. First, I had elementary school age in mind; second, you can’t do both? Was she not involved in sports or band or dance or some other activity besides Young Womens?
My second surprise came at my first post-college job. I was working in Salt Lake, and in the small groups I worked with and hung out with, I was the only Mormon. This meant I occasionally cleared up misconceptions. One day the topic of Girl Scouts came up and a coworker said that she didn’t understand why Mormons couldn’t be Girl Scouts. I told her I had been a Girl Scout and almost everyone in my troop had been Mormon; thus, it was not true that Mormons couldn’t be Girl Scouts. She told me that a previous supervisor who was LDS had told her that. I shrugged and told her it must just have been his thing, that the Church was neither for or against Girl Scouts. I didn’t know of anything any leader of the Church had ever said in favor or not of the organization.
Since then I’ve just occasionally seen a comment here or there that lets me know those were not totally isolated incidents. I can understand why some may not be into the Girl Scout thing; I’ve heard the “horror stories†(as they are labeled) of liberal troop leaders passing on info to the girls that you would rather they not see at that age or you would rather teach yourself. For me, I’d switch troops if I objected to things going on in any troops my yet-to-be daughters were in. And I understand if parents simply have no interest; there are a plethora of activities to choose from and kids can’t do them all, even if some parents try. But the active hostility I see from quite a few members of the Church leaves me perplexed.
The national organization of the Girl Scouts has changed a lot since I was a girl, from what I read. A few years ago I read [url=http://www.nationalreview.com/23oct00/lopez102300.shtml]this piece[/url] in the National Review. I’ve never heard of any official Church warning against the Girl Scouts, but I can understand if a parent disagreed with the policies of the Girl Scout organization and decided that their girl shouldn’t be a part of it. And I could understand if parents thought the local leader could mediate any immoral influence from the national organization and that it would be a worthwhile experience for their daughter.
That link again:
Sigh… National Review piece about the Girl Scouts
(aha! I found the handy dandy preview button!)
That Nat Review article really irked me: is the worst dirt they have on GS is that the director was in the Navy and supports Title IX? As far as their materials being too “after school special,” the writer obviously hasn’t seen a Cub Scout handbook in the last decade–I was required to have a sit down with my 7yo on sexual abuse before he could get his Bobcat. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.) Boy Scouts have towed the conservative line on homosexuality, but there’s plenty of leftie ‘save the earth’ stuff in their guides (again, not that I think there is anything wrong with that.) And this statement–presented as if it were a bad thing?–:
“Girl Scouts now can earn the “Ms. Fix-It” badge for learning how to fix a leak, rewire an electrical appliance, or re-caulk a window, and the “Car Care” badge for checking fluids, filling tires to the proper pressure, and performing safety checks.”
And as far as allowing lesbian leaders, that’s a separate issue. But that wasn’t the focus of the piece. And I doubt it was a big issue in your Provo troop, either.
I have fond memories of Brownies :).
I have found memories of my days as a Brownie. My mom was one of our leaders and we did crafts. I recall a field trip to Guys Potatoe chip. There was no idealogy or anything at work at this troop that was sponsored by the Catholic school that I attended. I gave one of my first public speeches and earned a badge. I really belted it out too… “Casey Jones was an engineer…..” We had a chance to go to Day Camp and then spend the night on the last night. There was nobody to sponsor the troop after my second year so it dissolved. I did participate in a couple of groups through Discovery Unlimited, which was an extention of the Girl Scouts. I sewed my first and only dress in one class. The other class was about broadcasting. I wrote a script with my cousin that the girls performed in and aired on cable. For one of the meetings, a local broadcasting woman came and spoke to us about her work.
I am sorry to see the trend in the link to the article and would certainly have reservations about sending any children of mine to such an organization.
Maybe there are other organizations that enourage the development of girls and the fun without the social agenda.
I think church members who oppose the organization are succumbing to the all-too-common mistake of thinking that because the church doesn’t officially support something, it must be wrong for church members to support it.
My understanding is that a principal reason why the church hasn’t officially supported the Girl Scouts organization is because they won’t let the church form its own troops and pick its own leaders (like the church does with Boy Scouts). As a result, it has no official sanction.
Some church members probably take this too far and think that if you’re not with the church, you must be against the church. But that’s absurd, because as you say, band and the soccer team aren’t supported by the church, but they aren’t evil either. It can be frustrating when well-meaning members overzealously assume official church disapproval (or approval) when none exists.
That’s interesting Jonathan. Is there a common thinking that if the church doesn’t endorse it that members shouldn’t support it? I’ve not seen that. I tend to think that lacksidasical support for non-church activities tends to be more from either laziness or burnout from all the Church activities people are involved with.
Of course I also have to admit that I’m not exactly big on scouts. If the church dropped scouts I’d not shed a tear and probably wouldn’t enroll my son in it.
It’s interesting that the Presiding Bishopric came out this last year promoting organizations like the United Way. Is that a manifestation of this problem? I should note that in Utah County at least volunteering time is hard. All the charities minus those dealing with the mentally ill are pretty filled up and there were waiting lines. Perhaps its different in Salt Lake.
Anyway, my opinion of both scouts and probably girl scouts is that I could certainly do a much better job educating the kids on such matters myself. I think too much of it is “busy work” and ultimately pointless.
Aside from allowing gays and lesbians to be leaders, the Girl Scouts in 1993 took out the section in their oath about “pledging to serve God” and put forth a new policy permitting girls to replace “God” with “words they deem more appropriate” while reciting the Girl Scout Promise.
It’s nice to hear about the “Ms. Fix-it” and “Car Care” badges. Horse-crazy as I was and as useful as I’ve found the Red Cross Babysitting Cerification, somehow my Girl Scout years just never cut it for me. The only camping trip I remember was in our leader’s back yard. We were forced to learn how to tie various knots but never given an opporturnty to use that knowledge. It was more “Camp Beverly Hills” than anything else… well, minus the ridiculous opulance.
We have our two oldest daughters in a Daisy* Girl Scout troop right now, and they love it. I agree, when Girl Scouts comes up among members of the LDS Church there are some very strange reactions to it (polite ones twitch and say nothing, others can be more vocal about the inspired program for youth vs. a worldly youth program, whatever that means).
My son turned eight last year,and we started him in Cubs at the church. When he found out that he could have been a Tiger Cub at age 5 he was quite disappointed. When our baby is that age I expect we’ll be signing him up for Tigers.
I had reservations about scouting in general from the stories my husband told me (nothing abusive in his case, thankfully, but some behaviors/attitudes I didn’t want my children learning). I’m fully prepared to pull any/all of them out of the scouting programs if it’s not what’s best for them and our family.
*Daisies precedes Brownies now, and is for ages 4-6
Re #8: Close, but not quite.
From the official Girl Scout website:
The Girl Scout Promise
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God* and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
The Girl Scout Law
I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.
* The word “God” can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one’s spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word “God” with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate.
We had a friend in high school who did all the work but was deemed not to have fulfilled sure the requirements to obtain his Eagle Scout because he was not certain that God existed.
He told us that at his Board of Review they asked him about how served God and he was honest with them about his doubts. They conferred, asked him how the universe was created, and he knew he was in trouble when they didn’t like his answer about the Big Bang Theory. They conferred, asked him how this world was created, and he replied “Um, Higher Power?”
Yes, I still think it’s unfair, even all these years later =)
I was a brownie and a girl scout for a couple years. I thought it was pretty fun. I haven’t heard of anyone LDS around here putting their girls in scouts, but I don’t know any non-LDS girls in scouts either. (They do exist here, I saw one flyer at school). I haven’t ever heard an LDS person react negatively about Girls Scouts, but the subject has never come up except for a cookie discussion.
I loved Girl Scouts, and was sad when our troop dissolved at the beginning of 6th grade (the troop leader’s daughter had discovered boys, makeup, and the mall; no other mom wanted to take over.) If/when I have daughters, I want them involved. And it’s not hard to find a troop that suits your needs; troops are organized all kinds of ways (ours was just for girls at our elementary school; my little sisters were in one for girls on one side of our little town in Ohio many years later.) Though there’s no LDS awards (unlike with the BSA) there are other religious recognitions, just as in the BSA: http://www.sealofohio.org/religious.html
“Troops and groups meet in a variety of locations: schools, churches/synagogues, recreation and community centers, homes and businesses. Meetings are generally one to two hours in length depending on the location and frequency of meetings. Meetings occur during school lunches, after school, during evening hours and on weekends.”
I’ve never heard anything from or in church that was opposed to Girl Scouting, or Camp Fire for that matter. It’d be about as silly as hearing something negative about chess teams, Irish dance lessons, the Sea Cadets, or community theatre, to me. They even have permission slips for “sensitive issues” programs.
Re: 14
I saw an LDS one listed on a poster of religious awards at our Girl Scout building. I think it’s “Faith in God”.
I was amazed at all the different ones there on the poster, even Buddhism and the CoC(RLDS) have recognized religious awards for Girl Scouts. I need to see if I can find a copy of that poster…
Here’s a reference:
I have never ever heard of anything like this (church members having a problem w/GS)! I loved brownies and scouts, and went through 8th grade. I would have continued on if we had someone who was willing to be a leader. My daughter is 6 and I’m anxious for her to become a Brownie. (I’ve never heard of Daisies!) GS taught me so many interesting and practical skills. Why would anyone think you can’t do YW’s and Scouts at the same time??
My eldest three daughters have been Girl Scouts from Daisies on up to when they lost interest or the troop dissolved. I plan on being a Girl Scout leader for my youngest daughter when she reaches Daisy age. I see no problem reconciling Church standards with Girl Scouting, and have been grateful for the (mostly nonmember) friends my girls and I have made through their troop affiliations.
I’m the Faith in God/Activity Days for Girls leader in my ward, and have wished we had some kind of reward system (even token awards, like the BSA or GSA patches) to recognize the achievements and strides the girls make as they navigate through the program. I understand the “achievement is its own reward” logic, but not necessarily for 8-11-year-old girls, particularly when their counterparts in Boy Scouts are receiving awards. We tweak it a bit (with the bishop’s approval) in my ward to give the girls a tangible goal (representative charms for a bracelet, given at the completion of the program) as well as the intangible benefits.
Sara – I too understand if parents decide it’s not for them or their daughters. All good parents make those type of judgements when it comes to activities. The strange response – that it is not possibly something a good Mormon would do – if other parents decide it’s okay is what I found perplexing.
Jonathan (#6) – Good point about taking no stand to mean against. I hadn’t thought of that. I’ve seen that at times in other areas, such as various community action groups (innocuous ones like the Humane Society). I’m one who is quite happy the Church doesn’t want to officially support the Girl Scouts. Why should they? GS isn’t something that really has anything to do with salvation. Then again, the Church’s relationship with BSA has always seemed wrong to me, too.
harpingheather (#9) – I think your experience demonstrates that leaders make all the difference. I don’t remember learning anything about tying knots (that was learned at Girls Camp), but I know my first year of GS was not as good as my second year; I had different leaders each year. I actually can’t remember much we did the first year, but I think it was only slightly interesting (the busy work that Clark refers to in #7). My second year, however, was where all the fun was. Our leader was really into it, and she used resources in the community so we could earn our badges and have fun. She had to have done a lot of work to prepare the activities. She signed our troop up for mini and day camps. I learned a lot and had a lot of fun that I would not have had without joining GS.
Eagle Scout (and thank you to Téa for posting the oath) – I’m not finding the God reference or potential non-reference to be threatening or disturbing. It’s a secular organization.
Sarah and T̩a (#14 and 15) РI had no idea there were religious awards. Very interesting! I like it.
I loved Girl Scouts. My mother actually signed me up because my brother started Cub Scouts, and I was so jealous–the church, at that time, offered late-elementary-school girls nothing. I remained jealous of Scouts throughout my YW years because they were constantly going on campouts, which was my idea of bliss. The irony is that my brother hated Scouts, despised them. But I think Girl Scouts is great. If I had girls who were interested, I’d definitely sign them up.
The national review piece was interesting. Julie may have tried to write it off, but the central paragraph was this:
Girl Scout policy forbids sex on Girl Scouts time. But the book On My Honor: Lesbians Reflect on Their Scouting Experience, published in 1997, is filled with coming-of-age stories sparked by gay encounters in the Girl Scouts. Along with an essay entitled “All I Really Need to Know About Being a Lesbian I Learned at Girl Scout Camp,” and various stories of “butch” counselors who “wore men’s clothes and had slicked back short hair,” is testimony to the prevalence of lesbians in Girl Scouting. One writer remembers: “By the time I was a junior counselor, Mic was assistant camp director and her gruff, deep-voiced directives no longer scared me. I didn’t know that most of the counselors were lesbians.” Others remember how sleepovers and camping trips were opportunities for same-sex sexual experimentation. Girl Scout staffers writing in the book claim that roughly one in three of the Girl Scouts’ paid professional staff is lesbian.
That’s hardly some sort of aside. I think the article started off weak because it brought out its weakest evidence first, and its strongest evidence last.
Ivan’s post #21 raises some interesting questions. My two girls are not in Girl Scouts because they simply have never been interested. Personally, I think it’s easy to get too worked up about stories of lesbian encounters at Girl Scout camps. Has it happened? Yes. Does this mean it will happen to your girls? Most likely, no. It’s kind of like the lapsed Catholics who claim they don’t want to go to church because they are afraid of all the gay priests. Give me a break. Yes, there are some gay priests, and clear cases of abuse, but the likelihood of your boys being molested are very, very low, probably lower than in a public school, for example. The same thing probably applies to Girl Scout camps.
My fundamentlaist Catholic friends are against GS because of some sexual education policies- to some extent, the GS offer sex eductaion, or fund it, or something like that. I expect it’s not a widespread issue, but it’s enough for them. Maybe your LDS friends heard the same?
Geoff-
you’re likely right, although part of the article I didn’t copy talks about how the Girl Scouts accept and actually invite lesbians to be their leaders. I don’t think the Catholic Church actively recruited gay priests.
Not that it matters to me. My daughter shows more interest in Chess Club than Girl Scouts.
My daughters are both in Girl Scouts, and it’s been an overwhelmingly positive experience. They meet twice a month at a local Catholic church, mostly with girls they know from school, and the parents help out as much as they want to. I’m an assistant leader. The other leaders are other parents of the girls in the troop, and most of the parents know each other well, from church or PTA.
I’ve never heard any LDS criticism of Girl Scouts, other than one woman who was concerned about what she felt was a “liberal” slant in some of the materials for older girls. My answer to this, and to concerns about leaders, etc, is simple: get involved. It’s easy to be a leader or assistant leader. It’s a simple thing to decide which suggested activities to do with your troup, or how to present a specific skill or lesson (FWIW, the handbook is pretty mainstream, and easily adaptable). It’s a fun activity twice a month that you can do with your daughter(s). The girls learn useful life skills, organization, and make good friends.
My own take on why there aren’t more LDS girls involved in Girl Scouts (and PTA, and other community organizations) is simple: it isn’t required, as Boy Scouts are; it’s not a specific sport or activity like soccer or piano, so the return on the time investment might not be as apparent; LDS parents are busy, busy, busy with callings and required activities. It’s definitely a worthwhile experience for those who can put in the time, though.
Ivan, that was my point: if their real beef was lesbian leaders, why waste time on Ms. Fix-It and Title IX? Cut to the chase! I said in my comment that I thought the lesbian leaders was a different matter.
Julie –
well, I think the article was poorly structured, but my guess is that the beef with Title IX and affirmative action comes from the fact the author was Kathryn Jean Lopez, who is obsessed with taking down Title IX in college sports, so perhaps that is a more pressing issue to her personally.
I am in YMs and my wife is in YWs in our Utah County ward. The YM are the subject of prayers and we have parent peptalks if they are not doing BOTH their Duty to God and working towards their Eagle Scouts. We do not think that D2G replaces scouting (and we don’t have D2G campouts–we act like they have separate roles/realms).
Why are two programs important/necessary/endorsed/funded for boys, but not for girls? There are distinct personal progress and YM programs, right? But they are not two programs with badges and separate budgets.
I have two daughters and one son, all preschool, but I am wondering, why will my son need(?) two programs and my daughters only need the one? Do 21st Century boys need (or some other word) the survivalism/paramilitarianism/collective identity (unique) to scouting that 21st Century girls don’t need?
Is it just that girls are supposed to be more social, whereas boys would sit around and play video games if they are not being dressed alike and marched out of suburbia?
What am I missing?
cchrissyy (#23) – You could very well be right about them having heard the same things about sex education policies. However, those tales seem to mostly be in the realm of urban legend, not actual policies.
My nine-year old daughter is in Girl Scouts and my five year would be a Daisy except there was only three girls in the city that wanted to do it so no leaders wanted it. Unfortunately we didn’t find that out until a week ago, we just thought they were dragging their feet. My nine-year old is also in achievement days. She is the only LDS girl in her troop and the only one from our side of town; girl scout cookie sales are going GREAT! We haven’t had any problems with religious things and she has had a great time. She loves going to camp, and last year, they even had a pinewood derby!
I think it is interesting that quite a few of you are saying you want your daughters involved. My oldest is an 8 year old girl. She is interesting in everything. There is no clear one talent that she loves or is amazing at, so it is difficult to pick activities for her.
I have 3 children. How many activities can I actually take them to? I have so many choices. Piano (I play, I’d like my children to), basketball or soccer or karate (so they can be physically active), Acheivement days, swimming lessons, ballet, art, etc.
If I have three kids in three activities at once, that is impossible, unless the planets aligned…..perfect carpool available so I don’t have to drag around my other kids and sit through all those practices or meetings (with a toddler it isn’t fun, and when it is outside and its cold it really isn’t fun either), the activities take place much closer to my house so it is only a quick trip to take them, my husband coming home in time to watch the other kids, becoming a two car family so we can be in two places at once on Saturdays, my children making friends with the kids in the activity so they love it, lots of money to pay for all the activities for all the kids, etc.
quandmeme – I think you meant YW in that first sentence (correct me if I interpreted it wrong). Personal Progress actually isn’t a separate program from YW. They girls do much of it on their own, and some projects are completed on Wednesday nights when we do PP instead of some other activity (I serve in YW).
JKS – I didn’t mean the post to be a call to GS involvement on top of everything else, nor do I think those who have posted that their girls are involved meant that (though I am happy to see that many Mormons have found it to be as good as I did – I’m not a freak for being a pro-GS Mormon! :-)). Like I said the last paragraph of the post, there are many activities that kids can get involved in, and there is no way they can do them all. Parents must, of course, pick and choose what is best for the family and their kids. I just wanted to see if I was missing some grand anti-GS sentiment that made it a non-option in that buffet of activities from which parents and kids can select.
I too have very fond memories of brownies, some of my most vivid early memories are connected to girls scouts. My leader was Mormon, as were most of the girls in my troup.
My best friend in elementary (in a very small town in Utah) was one of the few non-memebers that lived in our neighborhood. It was always a little awkward when all the LDS children would have activities and she wasn’t part of that. Girl Scouts was awsome for us because we could do these activities together and she didn’t feel left out (at least not all the time).
When I was young many of my friends were in girl scouts. At first I didn’t even really know what it was, until I asked my mom why my friends wore uniforms to school sometimes. She answered me and I got the distinct impression from her that girl scouts wasn’t wholesome. I probably would have enjoyed girl scouts, but I think my parents had the reservations that have already been mentioned here (lesbian leaders, liberal slant etc.). In my parents home ‘liberal’ was and is a dirty word.
Anyhow, as a side note, does anyone remember watching Willow? I always think of the brownies in that movie, and the contempt that Willow had for them when people mention girl scout brownies. I think it’s funny association to make.
JKS, I can understand how quickly and easily you can get overscheduled. The way it’s worked out for us is that both girls’troops meet at the same time and place. Same with dance classes. For sports, we carpool. It simplifies things enough that instead of a burden, the activities are actually fun for everyone, and cuts the time spent waiting with a two year old boy in a crowded waiting area to almost nil.
Things don’t always work out in a good way for everyone’s schedule. I agree that multiple activities for multiple kids is a potential nightmare. But sometimes one can get lucky…
Tanya,
I didn’t think you were suggesting GS on top of everything else. I was just pointing out that in theory, there are tons of activities they want their children involved in. But when they actually reach that age, there are so many practicalities involved in trying to make it work, so as to not overwhelm parents, the budget, or the children.
My point was that if I was a mom with just one little baby, I might look at her and think “when she’s in elementary school, I hope she can go to Girl Scouts.” But now when I have an 8 year old, I realize that my child potential isn’t actually limitless. There are limits, unfortunately.
When my daughter was little (3, 4) I used to wonder about getting her into GS when she was old enough. But as those ages progressed, and it began to come clear there was something up with her (found out last year she is high-functioning autisic, although I’d say VERY high), I started having a hard time with the idea, and soon gave it up.
For one, there’s all my anxieties about being around other mothers. For another, I could picture her starting out ok in some activities and then getting “lost” as the directions/instruction proceeded. I thought about explaining to any leader(s) what kinds of ways of explaining things, work for her, but . . . I guess I just figured, in the end, that it’d end up upsetting her because she’d not know what was going on or what to do.
Besides the carpooling issues, I’d have no way to get her there.
She’s never had any activities, or any playmates. You’d be surprised how picky many mothers are that the kids theirs play with be socially on the same level as their child (not popularity, but social skills). And any child who, by a certain age, doesn’t have friends yet, well, they don’t want that child as a friend for theirs, because there must be something too needy about that child . . .
Woops. Completely off topic. Sorry. Everyone has established friends, pretty much by kindergarten, and I am so sad to see that Emily may be doomed to the same horrible aloneness I had growing up. Which makes me so horribly sad. And alot of it is my fault, because of my fears, too.
ANYWAY, back on topic, sort of. I’m not sure what kinds of activities, GS included, can accommodate for my daughter’s needs. And then there’d be all my fears about even trying to mention them and ask about them and interact with people about it.
Ugh. Now I know I’m a bad mom.
Um. That made it sound like I’ve tried plenty of other mothers/children to get her some interaction/friends/playments. I’ve tried, timidly, about 3 times. Her whole life.
I suck.
(Sorry, guess my meds aren’t working so well today . . . )
Does the Church take an official stand on Motherboy?
Motherboy! HA! Good one.
Most Girl Scout leaders are the parent of a girl enrolled in the program, and as such have a huge influence on how the programs are implemented. In addition, most troops depend on parent involvement to run different activities so as a parent you also have an opprotunity to influence the programs. I’m sure there are some ultra-liberal Girl Scout troops out there that would not be compatible with LDS values, but overall, the values of the community and the parents of the girls in the troop set the tone for the troop.
Girl Scouting is just one more activity that some girls enjoy and that needs some parental guidence and involvement to make it effective.
Good grief, Laura, such calm and reasonable thinking takes all the fun out of the culture wars!
It’s so much more exciting to get ourselves all worked up about rampant, contagious lesbianism than to actually *observe* a local Girl Scout troop and see if it would be a worthwhile activity for our daughters. So much more satisfying to repeat ridiculous stereotypes than to actually get to know any lesbian Girl Scout leaders and see if we’d like to have them teach our daughters about hiking, wilderness survival, or knitting.
Reading this makes me think of the 1989 movie “Troop Beverly Hills” with Shelly Long! Remember that one! 🙂
Not to sidetrack anything, but I would absolutely love to discuss Title IX with Ms. Lopez.
D-Train –
well, her e-mail is publicly available over at National Review dot com, and at their “corner” blog, she often posts comments from readers (she once even posted one from me on Young Adult novels). So if you really would like to discuss it with her (I would read the several articles she has written on Title IX first, though). she probably would welcome an e-mail or two.
Kristine, #43, I just wanted to point out that pigs have begun to fly because you and I agree on something, perhaps for only the second time in a year (see my #22)!!! Huzzah!!! But, on a slight sour note, I have not seen any actual evidence in this thread of people repeating the ridiculous stereotypes you mention. It all appears to be theoretical and aimed at people not posting here.
My wife was a GS when young and really enjoyed it, and got involved when our daughters got old enough. But she got disillusioned with and dropped the program when she found out that the area leaders in So. Calif. used a portion of the proceeds from cookie sales to send themselves to Hawaii for their annual “district meeting”. She was disgusted with what she felt amounted to “pimping these little girls out to sell cookies so these fat, lazy leaders could treat themselves to a little thinly-veiled vacation”.
Good program, just beware that those running the show are above-board with their stewardship of the funds, which of course applies to any organization, BSA notwithstanding.
This is second hand information so read with caution. My aunt was on the committee that put together the Varsity program. She has always maintained that Boy Scouts of America was very flexible in allowing the LDS church to make changes/additions to the program where as Girl Scouts would not accomodate changes requested at the time the LDS Church considered using the program for their young women.
The future of scouting within the LDS Chruch is in question as the National program is forced to allow gay/lesbian leaders into its ranks. It is just a matter of time. Any how Scouting within the Church is a mixed bag from area to area. In my ward, scouting ends for a boy when he goes on to Varsity (Teacher) and Explorers (Priest). The leader of these programs think scouting is basketball practice.
At summer camp it was embarassing. All of the other troops had parents that were involved. Of the 4 adults for our group, none of us had children in the program. This just galvinized my thought that when my boys are of scouting age, they will go to a Protestant troop.
I am the Daisy leader for a small group of 4 girls. I asked for sponsorship and was turned down. First United Methodist Church in a small narrowed minded town. However they support Boy Scouts with joy!! What gives, go figure, and is this a great nation!!!!
I have read the many posts and feel that there are several reasons the LDS Church does not use Girl Scouts in their program for girls. The most important one would be that Girl Scouts has gotten away from emphasizing the importance of being a mother and homemaker and instead steers girls toward career skills. While education for careers is important, as LDS women we are to give our best efforts to our families which will endure forever–not that education isn’t important and that women can’t get back to careers when children are grown or do something part-time that is less stressful to the family. Also, if the Girl Scouts won’t allow the church to have a say in the program, I could see that it wouldn’t want to be involved. Right now, I think the most important things girls need to be taught is sexual purity. In fact, the Young Women program has recently added virtue as one of the YW values that girls need to work on. Virtue includes sexual purity, of course, but is broader than that. The world is aiming raw sewage at our young at every turn. Giving in to worldly patterns of life causes such a profound loss of self esteem. Apparently the Girl Scouts don’t want to take a firm stand on sexual issues which is too bad. It’s not that Girl Scouts is entirely bad, but if our daughters join, parents need to be aware of these things and monitor the program and perhaps be the ones to take on leadership so they can control what goes on.
The Girl Scouts have been controversial lately due to association with organizations such as Planned Parenthood. See here.
I just read a headline that said, “New Drug at Schools Looks Like Candy.” It reminded me that often things that look good on the surface can do great harm in the long run. Unfortunately, this seems to be the case with the direction the Girl Scouts are going today. An organization that was once a great way to learn important skills has been turned into a way to infiltrate homes and lives with some pretty dangerous viewpoints and philosophies of the world. See what one organization is doing to make people aware of some of the shifts the Girl Scout organization has made of late and how you can help send the organization a message of what you would like to see happen. Go to http://www.standforthefamily.org to learn more.
Okay maybe a few years late on this one. From the Girl Scout Website itself:
The Girl Scout Promise
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
The Girl Scout Law
I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.
Here is the link: http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_central/promise_law/
Doesn’t seem to me like there should be a problem with it. I do understand not being able to form their own troops, but honestly, if the two organizations sat down and talked, and explained their positions, I think they could like adults come to a compromise.
I’m not very big on scouting being a church activity, if Girls have to go outside the Church to participate in it. Then Boys should too. Let us just use our own Duty to God, Personal Progress, and Zion’s camp and Young Woman’s camp as activities.