On a recent visit to the temple, you happen to encounter a professional anti-Mormon (aka, card carrying member of the Fluffy Bunny Nice Nice Club) standing outside the temple gates. As you walk to your car, he calls out to you and asks you to go to Denny’s with him for a Bobby-Flay-style gospel throwdown.
He pulls out a triple combination and proceeds to read D&C 71:7-9 to you:
7 Wherefore, aconfound your benemies; call upon them to cmeet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their dshame shall be made manifest.
How do you respond to this request?
Personally, I’d tell him I have more productive things to do with my time than listen to rehashes of anti-Mormon claims I’ve already investigated and resolved (and that in fact led to my becoming LDS!), such as Scripture study, attending to my family, and compassionate service.
Forgot to add that I would not be willing to go anywhere with an unfamiliar male without my husband being present. 🙂
Seanette, good answers! I think one of the best ways to confound your enemies is to live your life in peace and simply do what is right. Your good example is likely to confound at least a few people.
This actually happened to me before my mission. I was serving as a “youth guide” at the Mesa Arizona Temple Visitor’s Center where I would give garden tours to church members and those not of our faith. It was probably during the annual Easter Pageant when I was invited to go to Denny’s so I could fulfil this scriptural mandate.
After he stopped at verse 9, I asked him to leave his scriptures open and then read verse 10: “And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time.”
I told this gentleman that his voice had been lifted up against me and that he would see the day when this promise would be fulfilled.
Arguing the gospel is extremely unproductive, especially with those whom have already made up their minds and choose to fight agaisnt the Church. I like Seanette’s answers as well.
He’d have to offer me a far better meal than Denny’s. If the food was decent (and he was paying), why not?
They always probably suggest Denny’s because they know they’ll tie you down for two hours until your food gets there. Seriously, no matter where it is in the country, Denny’s is slow.
Sam B.: I’m thinking that a steak at Mortons, Flemings and/or Ruth’s Chris would be a tempting offer for a pointless conversation. 😉
Hans: Re-read verse 9 and liken it to Denny’s. “…there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper.”
He pulls out a triple combination and proceeds to read D&C 71:7-9 to you…How do you respond to this request?
I express astonishment at his ability to read, and ask it we are going to Denny’s on the intellectual short bus.
http://www.clobberblog.com/?p=783
Seriously, anybody who pickets and trolls outside anybody else’s sacred buildings has some major problems, and even a 2 hour long conversation over Denny’s chow isn’t going to resolve them.
That’s easy. A simple “no thank you” will do just fine. It does not matter that he quoted to you the D&C- I do not think this is the type of situation those verses are referring to.
Mark Brown: That picture is priceless!! I LOVE IT!!
Jordan F.: I think you are absolutely correct about that verse not applying in this situation. I think they [anti-mormons] rely on people taking that scriptural reference literally and saying, “Well, if it’s in the D&C, you better buy me a Grand Slam and let me counfound you.” I have what I would consider a strong testimony and a good working knowledge of the scriptures, but lack the desire and will to do battle with someone who has no intention of backing down. There is a good analogy about dispersing liquid into the wind that seems to apply here. 😉
I’d tell him I don’t like Denny’s.
I tell him that the particular section in question doesn’t apply to me.
I guess the question then is, to whom does this scripture apply? Should missionaries accept the challenge?
@East of Eden
Don’t like Denny’s?!?!?!? That’s un-American! Hello, Dick Durbin? I’d like to report a dissenter… 😉
Proverbs 26:4
Orrrrrr….. I’d tell him, “When Satan tempted Christ to commit sin in the New Testament, he quoted scripture too.”
@Bookslinger
Perfect answer, Bookslinger. That same scripture was the centerpiece of a story on Ardis’ blog as well.
Find out if he is a Calvinist. Most of these zealous Christian anti-Mormon jihadists are so say you would like to talk about Calvinism instead. Calvinism is a shockingly appalling theology so it is easy to tee off on it.
Most FBNNC members are good at offense but have no defense for their own Calvinist theology. Calvinism paints God as a sadistic psychopathic monster who creates us as puppets and then indiscriminately tortures most of us forever in hell for behavior he predestined us to do to begin with. They never have a response for that problem except “Uhhhh… God is mysterious…” Seriously, they want us to give up Mormonism for THAT?
@Bookslinger I like both your answers, Bookslinger. 🙂
Geoff, what’s FBNNC?
Brian, earlier today you said that commenting on my post was the worst thing you’ve ever done. I am here to tell you flat out that the worst thing you have ever done was acquire a warm spot in your heart for an abomination of a restaurant like Denny’s. FOR SHAME!
Seanette: FBNNC- Fluffy Bunny Nice Nice Club. My new favorite term for anti-mormons. 🙂
Scott B.: The only good thing about Denny’s is that they are open all night. Whenever I have worked a graveyard shift (typically a DUI taskforce), Denny’s is the best and only place open that late. Come to think of it, you can usually find a drunk at Denny’s that late as well.
Thanks, Brian. Still learning the local vernacular. 😉
It is sort of an obscure joke Seanette. See the history behind it here.
I think it is always useful to discuss the gospel within parameters. When I meet this type I usually ask what they believe is required for salvation and what significant teaching of Christ they live by. If you can talk about gospel subjects that either we agree about or that we can disagree but still learn from each other I don’t have a problem.
Unfortunately many of this type are only seeking to find someone to argue with and prove their intellectual prowess.
Brian, I love your verse 10 comment to the Easter Pageant protestors (I think I remember meeting you once when you were talking to some of them on the sidewalk near the NW corner of the temple grounds, probably Easter Pageant of ’97 or ’98).
Truly verses 7-9 don’t apply to this situation, because the Lord describe something happening on the Saints’ terms, not on the enemies’ terms. When it’s on the enemies’ terms, it’s verse 10.
So I guess if you turned it around on the FBNNC member and invited him to have a public or private debate at a place and time of your choosing, then these verses would apply.
Oh man, Geoff. Calvinism and the problem of evil. Fish in a barrel!
I would accept his challenge, and eat a hearty meal on his dime. I would insist that we set up some basic rules before hand, so that it remains civil debate and doesn’t collapse into a mob argument.
I’d use, as I’ve done before, concepts taught in non-Biblical ancient documents that support Mormon concepts (Dead Sea Scrolls, Nag Hammadi, etc)., which he invariably will not know much about, and will be out of his league. I’ve done it before, and they never know how to counter it.
I would also use his God Breathed belief against him, as I’ve done before. On my mission, a Baptist missionary cornered me at a train station (his buddies didn’t get involved), and tried hitting me hard. He asked me to prove to him that God has a Father. I opened my KJV to Rev 1:5-6. He insisted that it was a poor translation. I asked him if the Bible was “God Breathed.” He said yes, and so I insisted he either accept the translation, or stop believing the Bible to be God Breathed (it couldn’t be both). He paused, uncertain what to do next.
I was then able to take the discussion onto areas I wanted it to go.