Last night I was able to watch Elder Oaks’ comments as they were broadcast live over the internet from the The Worlds of Joseph Smith International Academic Conference at the Library of Congress.
I was also able to listen to most of the commentators live during the Saturday sessions as well. Lots of interesting discussion. Unfortunately for those of you who missed it, I was unable to take notes.
I have good news, however: The video of Elder Oaks’ comments is already available to watch online at lds.org. I’m sure the presentations of other contributors will be available soon as well.
Other presentations from the Library of Congress Joseph Smith symposium will become available on Thursday.
Elder Oaks gave an interesting presentation aimed at (a) showing that he was an accomplished individual with impressive, real-world credentials and not just one of the boring army of otherwise ignorant religious leaders, and (b) explaining some of the church’s claims about revelation in common sense terms relating to respect for deity and human insight.
Apparently, he spent quite a lot of time preparing his talk. I heard that he considered it among the most important talks he’s given in his life. As long as you expect something along the lines of a fireside talk, you’ll be impressed. It does not, however, break any new ground or say that leering perverts view women as walking, talking porn. If you’re expecting something on the level of The Carthage Conspiracy, then you’ll be disappointed.
Arturo, was such a snarky commentary really necessary?
Lowell, one sentence in my comment attempts to humorously paraphrase a salient statement of Oaks’ in a recent general conference talk—a statement that I have vehemently defended elsewhere in the face of much personal vituperation.
Nevertheless, I maintain that there is nothing especially sarcastic or irreverent about my comment. On the contrary, taken as a whole, it is dispassionate and complementary. Indeed, I think the world of Elder Oaks and enjoyed his presentation. Nor do I see anything wrong with a fireside talk per se, provided that the context and expectations are correct, as in this case they were.
Arturo, I got the reference about women and pornography. Over all, I thought the tone could be taken the wrong way though. You have to remember that we do not all have your subtle and sophisticated sense of humor. 🙂 I speak as someone who took a class in rhetorical theory and criticism and a also persuasion. I dropped both classes so take what I say with a grain of salt. I do appreciate you take on things and your ability often to cut to the chase. I may have missed it, but I am still waiting for you to say, “I am not a chick or anything.” PS this is only a temporary addy and yes I know I am strange to keep chaning addy’s. 🙂
Well, I have speakers but am not sure why but they do not work. Are these things in transcripts anywhere?
Arturo, I don’t know you, and I don’t read By Common Consent unless I am directed there (too much anger and intellectual smugness on that site for me). So it is hard for me to guess at your real meaning when you say things like this:
Elder Oaks gave an interesting presentation aimed at . . . showing that he was an accomplished individual with impressive, real-world credentials and not just one of the boring army of otherwise ignorant religious leaders.
An “army of otherwise ignorant religious leaders?” I find this offensive, even if you’re talking about the folks of the Christian Right. You must not know many of them or read much of what they say.
It does not, however, break any new ground or say that leering perverts view women as walking, talking porn.
I dug up your BCC comments on this and now know what you really think. The way you rephrased the point Elder Oaks made in his conference talk about women dressing modestly, however, was such a gross disfigurement of his original statement that I’m afraid you ended up completely obscuring what you were trying to say. Satire needs a lighter touch sometimes.
Thanks for the feedback, Lowell. I intended the phrase, “army of otherwise ignorant religious leaders” to reflect the possible viewpoint of potential detractors from Elder Oaks’ talk. Surely you are aware that people like Jerry Falwell are not often credited with a deep or sophisticated intellect.
Elder Oaks told stories from his own life that brought out that (among other things) he was a clerk for the chief justice of the supreme court, a partner at a major Chicago law firm, and a law professor at University of Chicago. Elder Oaks has an unusually distinguished career when compared to any group of people, including the other apostles, and especially most religious leaders. By making this known, Elder Oaks makes it much harder to dismiss him as a kook who hears voices—and in my experience there are many people prone to think exactly that about Mormon leaders. Please take my comment about Elder Oaks as (at worst) a cheap attempt to get a laugh, or (at best) a reasonable attempt to compliment and categorize his talk in a jocular manner.
a chick, LOL. BTW, There’s nothing really strange about changing pseudonyms. I’ve done it once already. For my part, I’m anxious to see what you settle on. But I have a particular fondness for the temporary one that you’ve chosen—I’m not a chick or anything, but I think I’d be inclined to choose such a pseudonym if I were.
Fair enough, Arturo. Onward and upward.
Arturo, well I am not chic anymore. However, nobody will know what addy I choose. That is ultimately my reason for changing. Thanks for working not a chick or anything into your comments lol. I always feel so funny when I use “lol” like I am in seventh grade or something. Well, I have only been online for a year and it is becoming more natural. As a whole I hate acronyms wherever they are.
Lowell, strange that you would criticize AT for snarkiness and then level a comment like “I don’t read By Common Consent unless I am directed there (too much anger and intellectual smugness on that site for me).” The pot indeed calls the kettle black.
So far as your comment is concerned, I’d invite you to visit BCC and identify for me where the anger/smugness is that you’re referring to. It seems odd that you criticize the content of a site which you don’t read, by your own admission. Slinging such arrows is beneath you — I would stick to representing HMOs, personally.
Great characterization (can I suggest that it make the sidebar as a featured comment?). But let me ask: why stop at a mere “anger and intellectual smugness” description when you could go so much further. Let’s call a spade a spade: BCC is Satan.
In fact, if you take the ASCII code for the letters in the name “Steve Evans” and add the numbers up, it adds up to 616, which is as we all know the real number of the beast. What further confirmation do we need?
LOL this discussion.
At least Lowell didn’t accuse BCC of being a place where people sound off, largely agreeing with each other and arguing against those that disagree with them without actually having to confront them.
Too true, Eric.
By the way, I should have been more clear about my own reasoning. You see, I realized that BCC was Satan when I dropped by Steve Evans’ apartment one day and found him having fondue with the Tanners . . .
Arturo and Lowell showed the outstanding people as they were able to come to a better understanding of Artuturo’s sometimes coded, obscured, masked, bemused, amused comments. Lowell is looking upward and outward. Of course, I know Kaimi is tongue and cheek and very funny! Steve Evans, I will try to say this kindly. I do not know you personally or anything. I think that if we talk to any person probably more than twenty minutes on something a little deeper than the weather that we are likely to find where a person contradicts themsellf. I believe some of said we are all a mass of contradictions. I do not think it is good to call people on those minor inconsitencies. He may have even been entirely consistent as the meaning that he was conveying may have had a shade of meaning that surpassed what we seem to think. Again, I think Lowell demonstrated that he is a decent person who was very open to clarification. Excuse me if I am breaking some sort of norm in this environment. I often think there is a hidden rule book of conduct that got passt out for threads that I missed. Steve Evans, please do not be offended by me as I wanted to address this issue that I have found to be so true in life. I liked the way you worked in a plug for the blog. I am not sure if I have checked it out. I think that I shall. I promise I will not hijack threads there as I have been oft to do here. In short, do we feel the love everybody? Seriously, I feel like a priveleged fly on the wall here at times.
Eric, touche!
dowe feelthelove — wither the fries, man?!
Apologies for the obscure reference.
Don’t apologize, Steve. Your WTF comment gave you an excuse to provide a link to the best bloggernacle thread ever.
Steve, I do not get your reference about fries. In the context, it is probably very funny. I am in the Midwest so maybe it is more a regional thing. Or is it from pop culture? At any rate, it is over my head. If it was any type of slam, then I am glad man! I am a very sensitive and neurotic sister. 🙁
dowe feelthelove, “Wither the fries” is the oh-my-heck-ification of WTF.
What pretail is WTF? I know everybody that I need to lighten up! I am glad that I have not been “voted off the island yet.” Sorry if I get preachy. Having the ability to type something that someone will potentially read is way to much power for I who have a complex that nobody wants to hear what I have to say for the most part. I need to do more listening now. I will sit back and enjoy the show! I will not make a solitary remark for some time. I must ask though, Arturo what’s up with the Care Bears?
I had to make one quick comment. I think I figured out WTF and I guess it would be edited if one were to say it. Hey that was mean. I go away hurt and dejected and tears starting to well in my eyes. I will not be back to these areas because I cannot take contention. I had fun while it lasted! Good bye! Whatever you say I will not know as I will not be hear to read. Yes, I know I am overly sensitive, over reacting, overly emotional, but yet very serious that I will not be at this blog anymore. Hey, its not your falt that I am a mess!
Well, I did mean what I said at the time. It used to be the other people in my family that were passionate over reacters. I had a tendency to be a little impulsive but not with my relationships. Well, you all are far too interesting to stay away. I will try to conform to some more normal standard of conduct now. I am not very good at being normal even if I try very very hard. Well, this is more about me than you wanted to know. Of course, I will change my addy so when a hopefully more presentable me emerges, it will be devoid of all the baggage. It will also have no recollections of any possible grudges. Sorry if I rubbed anybody the wrong way. I better literally be quiet for a spell. But I will be listening and learning.
You crack me up, drama queenreturns and dowe feelthelove. Don’t let what people say here get to you. Just say what you feel comfortable saying. And there’s worse things than getting thrown off the island anyway. Most people simply ignore me, but I’ve still managed to have more rude things said to me than the rest of the bloggernacle combined. And I’m not complaining; I give as good as I get–good enough at any rate to get banned at T&S twice!
The individual formerly known as bkay and many other names–more recently dowefeelthelove, drama queenreturns, and chic etc does not know if she should comment as she said she would be listening and learning. However, it behooves her to express appreciation to Arturo for his kindness. I know it is not becoming for me to comment on how people ignore me. In truth, people have often been very nice and welcoming to me. I just have this complex that I am jumping up and down with my head peeking over the fence saying, “Look at Me!” Look at me!” Well, I will try to stay away for awhile. I think I know the addy that I will use that hopefully will remain covert. Thank you for treating me like a regular person!
Okay, I did not keep my word very long about staying quiet. I do need to do a lot of listening and learning before returning with my new addy. Since you all plugged bcc, I wanted to put in another word for my online journal at ldsCity.com. Most of my enteries are open to the public. I would find it a lot of fun if somebody would comment. Use whaterever addys you like. I do not have the discipline to be a real blog and have to have a final copy. I like my rough draft write what comes into the mind–free association process. I really like how a couple of them have come together. Have I been voted off the island yet?
“Since you all plugged bcc”
???????????? If that was a plug, I’d hate to read the real jibes.
Steve, you make a good point. My comment about BCC was borderline gratuitous. I used to go there a lot and when I stopped visiting, I did so because it seemed to me that BCC was a place where many regular visitors seem to feel they have a special understanding of life and the gospel because of “their chances for learning.” But I have not regularly visited BCC in a long time and I did not need to take a swipe at those who enjoy that blog. So apologize for my snarkiness but not my view of BCC.
And by the way, Steve, I don’t represent HMOs. I’d try to tell you what I do but it’s too obscure to make much sense of it in a blog.
Hopefully this is only a temporay breaking of silence. I would not make a very good none–12 years of Catholic schooling wasted on me lol. Well, I am so excited somebody using the name of AT made a comment at my sight. I went back an edited somthing that was not my original thought. It was in regards to Moroni’s feelings towards the words of the Brother of Jared. I read that in an article about the origin of language. My high school’s philosphy of plagerism in literature was that every single sentence should probably have a citation because there are no original thoughts in literature as everything had been written so widely about. While I take deference with that, I do not want to pass of that idea as my own. Steve Evans, I was wondering if you wanted to be my friend. Well, you are probably married and the boundaries that must be drawn are too tight for any meaniful relationship. Aw, shucks! Well, reading blogs is about the closest I come to meaningful relationships with intellectual men. Am I shameless? I will be away from the computer today so I will not see any exchanges. Arturo, you seem like such a mystery man to me. Do you have a personal blog? I went to bcc and saw comments by you but did not see your name as one of the authors. Arturo, you have addressed me more than once albeit by different names so that makes you my friend in my book. I have a very loose critereia for what I consider to be close friends. I am so bad I keep running on and on. I know I am out of place. I will try to contain myself although I so hate being confined. 🙂
That is weird. I typed none. Insert nun. I have a lot of respect for many nuns so it was not a Freudian slip. Nuns have in a large part made me who I am today so I must have respect.
Arturo and Steve, I hope that I did not cause any embarassment or make either of you nervous by my forwardness. I am so inhibited in person speaking to people who I perceive to be superior to myself. At first, I was even shy back in my early days at db to say anything. The flood gates have been opened and my fingers have a mind of their own. Help! Where will I draw the line of common decency. Really, I do have somewhat of a grip on reality, however, marginal at times. But seriouslly, I do not know either of other than from blogs so I am sorry that I am probably again breaking norms. I hope that I will not increasingly become more obnoxious. I certainly would not behave like this on my forums with established identity. Good thing that I can keep shifting identities to where nobody will eventually know me unless they have a computer like they use to find the Book of Mormon has different authors(prophets), which shows validity that it was not all written by the same person. Of course, people usually have common themes that come out so being hidden is not so easy. But I think I will manage when I emerge again. 🙂 Why do I have to come across as being so strange. I really am far to normal except for ocd–my identity, my nemesis, my reality-my robber of life. Sorry if I am too melodramtic. Will somebody please edit my uncontrollable remarks? Maybe you should vote me off the island as I seem to be getting progressivley worse.
I know I said I would not be leaving this interesting environment. However, given my present state, it is advisable. I am not the most stable person and I do not want my agenda to bleed into things. I told myself in the past not to say things like I feel ignored. I need to be more respectful of myself and others. I find it detracting when others make such remarks so I do not know why I would make such a statement. I am sorry that I sought way too much attention of the wrong type. I did have a little fun too. Thank you all for that. I am glad that I said my remarks in the judgment thread. However, all of the other carrying on is not what a Latter Day Saint should do. I have been blessed to learn of the Restored Gospel. I knew the contrast in my life immmediately. I have been starting to feel the Holy Spirit again more. I did not feel the presence of the Holy Spirit today and I think it is because of my behavior. Sometimes I think I am funny or clever when I make off the cuff remarks. Yes, there is a time and place for that, but I crossed the line. I will not be back to read remarks because I fear somebody may say something that would hurt me. I am not so strong as to take that. Thank you all for having been so respectful. I know that I opened a door wide open where I was vulnerable and it could have been taken advantage of. Good bye and thank you for all you did. I will sign with my original addy, bkay I leave you with much sisterly love!
Kaimi You see, I realized that BCC was Satan when I dropped by Steve Evans’ apartment one day and found him having fondue with the Tanners . . .
No, no, no. You’ve got it all wrong. It was Lou Midgely showing up unannounced at Lighthouse Ministries and rudely interupting George Smith having fondue with the Tanners. I can understand how you might confuse yourself with Lou Midgely, Kaimi. But mixing up Steve Evans and George Smith?