Thanks, Adam, for continuing the BOMblogging campaign (two parentheticals– 1. how great is it to see Adam back in action? 2. Also, don’t you think BOMblogging gets on the list of fantastic, tongue-soothing names invented by Bells? Think Blogscars, BLODTD and Intellecxhibitionist. These guys are sooooo good! We also write jingles.) (Ahem– and they currently have won only 2 of 62 votes at THIS POLL. Ahem).
So can I pile on with my own Book of Mormon thoughts?
I was shocked to read the verses in the title, and I’ll tell you why. I’ve always struggled with the concept of chosen peoples. I won’t get into it too much, because I think it’s a common concern– what does God gain from grouping people together, making covenants with a people, rather than individuals? What sense does it make to treat a descendant of Ruben differently from a descendant of Gad? My guess is most of us have had these questions at one point, and found varying levels of satisfaction in resolving them.
Enter Nephi. Speaking to his brothers about the post-Exodus Israelites and those they displaced:
And now, do ye suppose that the children of this land, who were in the land of promise, who were driven out by our fathers, do ye suppose that they were righteous? Behold, I say unto you, Nay.
Do ye suppose that our fathers would have been more choice than they if they had been righteous? I say unto you, Nay.
Behold, the Lord esteemeth all flesh as one; he that is righteous is favored of God.
I don’t know why I’d missed that scripture before, but it does a lot to make God’s behavior as to various groups and races more understandable. And it’s really cool that Nephi makes this slight right turn in the course of his sermon to explain what’s going on for us. Just remember: regardless of whether you’re Israelite, Chinese or Aleut– and despite inferences you might rightly draw from scripture– God favors you based on your righteousness, and nothing else. That feels good.
And here’s a bonus big picture lesson: Every time God does something that looks unjust or unfair or inexplicable, ALWAYS accept that he’s being just and fair and righteous, even though it doesn’t look that way. There are just too many times when we’ve questioned his actions only to learn later that it’s perfectly clear why he did something. See also here.
Of course, all of this just raises more questions: Then why work in groups at all? What is the meaning and purpose of a covenant that runs down generational lines? Was every people destroyed or dispersed by Israel simply more wicked than them? Did the Lord covenant with Israel simply because he knew they were going to generally be more righteous than all the other groups?
Please discuss your own questions related to this topic, or raise other interesting points from your own reading.
Yeah, Ryan Bell, for me its the other way around. I get the chosen people idea, but I don’t get the qualification of it.
Whoa– still the last name? I’m shocked.
So, Adam, you’re saying that you do understand why God would distribute blessings and curses based on membership in a group, but don’t understand why he’d want to tailor his interactions with us based on our individual behavior vis-a-vis his commandments? I don’t get that at all. Please explain.
Sorry, Ryan, I probably don’t have time to get into my thinking on the subject, especially because I think we’re approaching it at cross-angles. But hold my feet to the fire sometime and we’ll have this chat.
As for calling you Ryan Bell, I hope that didn’t offend you. I sometimes happen to remember that the Bloggernacle is a public forum and calling each other by first names only is (1) confusing and (2) ingroup exclusionary, and that gets reflected in my typing. But I sometimes don’t remember, either. I’m nothing if not inconsistent.
lol, Adam. I’m not offended. Just that I’ve earned a precious privilege that I’ve been looking forward to enjoying. I won’t feel bad about there being an in-group at all– that’s what makes it so cool. Ben and Tanya and JMW (MHRIP) may also hold their privileged status high, I think.
This is a really great thread — I’ve never posted to a blog before and so here goes…and this is a good place to start, I think?!?
The first scripture that always comes to mind when talking about blessings has to be D&C82:10 which is true doctrine and yet is indiscriminate of tribe or association and again seems to be based upon behaviors. However, I think that there are different blessings for different groups of people based upon perhaps 1 or 2 things, or perhaps more, but here goes…
1. Foreordination and cont’d faithfulness – See Alma 13:1-6
2. Assignments or callings.
The 2nd one is of more interest to me in that blessings come from our actions which definitely implies that primary teacher blessings are much different than the Bishop’s blessings but no less equal than one another. On the other side of the coin it is not possible for a Bishop even to have the same blessings as a primary teacher bstowed upn them because he is just not doing that work and therefore not entitled to those blessings. If we apply this to the tribe thing and being favored of God, perhaps it has more to do with assignments each tribe has and will have in the future?!? For example, the sons of Levi when they offer up and offering in righteousness again, they will be in charge of levitical or Aaronic priesthood duties and then they will be entitled to those blessings, based upon faithfulness, which other tribes will not if they do not perform these ordinances, but will entitles to their own assigned blessings based upon faithfulness. Perhaps in the end favored of God simply means that the blessings are our if we do what he has asked us to do. An example of this is being sealed in the temple which only faithful members of the church can receive which then implies based again upon faithfulness entitles faithful members to the blessings of being sealed while those that are not sealed just cannot have these blessings. Perhaps ti would be good to read D&C130:18-22 – every blessing is predicated upon the obedidience to the law to whch it pertained (paraphrased, of course). Other relevant references are perhaps D&C93:30-45 which talks about spheres of truth and also Alma 41:3-7 which talks about recieving only that which we choose, nothing more and nothing less.
Ryan, one reason I wonder if God works with groupings all boils down to family. I think we underestimate the significance of our family ties and our responsibility to them. Nephi reassures us that each of us will ultimately answer for our own salvation, but perhaps the fathers and mothers and grandmothers and brothers and sisters will be held more accountable for one within who strays than we like to think. Not sure if any of this makes senes, but that’s the best I can do right now. Great post, thanks!
To your concluding question, I think that a lot of the judgments of God are natural judgments. I think we can see, for instance, the so-called “Nephite cycle” operating in history. The problem is that it is easy to have hubris and neglect the basic laws of society. I don’t think it implies God goes out and consciously targets people for punishment. Rather the punishments simply naturally happen.
Thus I don’t think AIDS is some virus designed by God in the least. However I think sexual promiscuity simply increases the chances that such diseases will spread. It’s a natural and not a divine consequence.
Likewise with the consequences in Isaiah that Nephi makes use of. I think a lot of it is simply natural. Have hubris and your neighbors may invade. That’s not to neglect the Lord in the least in those matters. But if people aren’t listening to his promptings, how can they make the choices that might lead them out of dire straits? I think Jeremiah, Lehi’s contemporary, is a great example. There were all sorts of false prophets with the ear of the King telling him what he wanted to hear. I suspect that had the King merely listened to Lehi and Jeremiah that perhaps the conquest by Babylon would have been postponed somewhat.
God rarely directly intervenes. People want him to do it. But typically we want him to do it despite our actions. i.e. take away consequences. God never does that. Ever. He will, however, help us within the consequences of our action and inspire us to avoid future ones. That is, God typically directs. He doesn’t intervene very often except indirectly through other inspired people.
Clark, you are right, God rarely intervenes and when he does he does it for the salvation of the people for whom he is intervening. Take Alma the Younger (I know an Angel took care of that, but probably at God’s command!), there was intervention there and look how it turned out, but what is even more interesting about that is that even though the Angel appeared to Alma the Younger, he still was left to make his own choices with the knowledge he had after that point (Alma 36:18-20). The same thing happened with Joseph Smith, he saw God and Jesus and then was left to make more choices given the intervening knowledge he then had. Like Joseph Smith said, ‘We teach them correct principles, and let them govern themselves’ which is a true principle of agency always that God lives by always as his course is one eternal round (Alma 7:19-20)
I’m not learned in the scholarly ways of the scriptures, but I had two different thoughts.
1. Given the emphasis on geaneology, and becoming to sealed to our forebears, the blessings or covenants God makes with a particular group, race, etc, may become a sort of blessings heritage lineage, sort of provides some extra motivation for the descendants to live righteously, (as well as for the initial covenantees, ie, such as Abraham or whatnot, promised that if they are faithful their seed will be, or get, or be blessed with, whatever), or I think more importantly, some extra sense of purpose, and/or function, and identity. I don’t see it as exclusionary of other groups who aren’t promised those blessings, I see it more as the idea that there are so many possible blessings the Lord can give, that there really isn’t anything exclusionary about covenanting with certain groups, because there are so many blessings available to all, and every one will have the chance to determine their focus or foci in life. If they belong to one of these covenanted groups or “families” (races), they will perhaps have a built-in focus, but of course are able to obtain other blessings throughout life as well. You know how priesthood holders have a list of when they got the priesthood, going back through to Joseph Smith? I see this as kind of a geaneological blessings lineage . . . something to inspire and sustain and encourage that particular group.
2. Shoot, I had another really good point, but 3 friends from the ward just came over to sit with me awhile because I was so low I shouldn’t be alone for awhile. And so the other point has left my brain, but when it comes back to me, I’ll post it.
Sarebear, I went to your url and read some of your blog. I think we are a lot alike. If you ever want a little moral support, you can pm me at ldscity.com under olivia86. I also have an online journal there too that every once in a while I make an entry. Make a comment if you like. I tried to comment at your blog, but am not sure if it took. Olivia86(sometimes)
thank you Olivia. I appreciate it. On my blog you have to scroll down a bit after you comment, to put in some verification letters. This helps avoid spamcomments.
I’m going to check out your journal, and feel free to put in a msg on my chatterboard on my sidebar, if you cant’ get the comments to work. We’ll get emailing back and forth if you like.
I have never met anyone who was like me, I’ve been kinda wondering if God broke the mold on me, and for good reason. lol.
Nice to meet u. (sorry for being off topic!)
Sara