well, it’s the place where BYU lives. And the most liberal is Detroit, Michigan. All kinds of interesting things to note: all of the northern Californian cities are liberal (I grew up there) and most of the conservative Californian cities are in Southern California. One of the most conservative cities is Hialeah, Florida, which is next to Miami, where I currently live, and filled with conservative Cubans. I was unable to find on this site how liberal and conservative are determined (I’m guessing voting patterns), but I don’t know if it was judged just on national elections or if local issues were considered. It is worth pointing out that there are some issues that are not that easily categorized, so don’t overestimate the accuracy of this study. Just interesting reading for the geographically minded.
The Millennial Star
“all of the northern Californian cities are liberal”
Redding? Yreka? Or that region around the San Francisco Bay, 300 miles south of the Oregon border?
I’d be interested in seeing some correlation between other factors and the liberal/conservative nature of the voting populace, i.e., crime rates, tax rates, etc.
Something tells me that Provo and Hialeah don’t compare well in terms of crime.
John Mansfield: With a few exceptions (O.C. and San Diego), the general rule of California politics is that coastal areas are liberal (even rural ones), inland areas are conservative. Redding and Eureka follow the rule pretty closely: Eureka went for Kerry, Redding went for Bush (barely, as I recall).
John M, the only cities counted were 100,000 in population or larger. I didn’t see Redding or Yreka on the list. I think Modesto and Santa Rosa were more conservative. And obviously Los Angeles is more liberal. The erroneous word here is “all.” But it was simply an interesting factoid that of all the cities in California with populations over 100,000, the vast majority of Northern California cities were liberal and the vast majority of Southern California cities were conservative.
You’re from Hialeah? Go Church of the Lukumi Babaly Aye!!!
Babalu, Babalu.
Wow! I’ve lived in several of the most conservative cities in the last 15 years. We sold our house in Escondido (#11) and moved out to Arizona on the border between Gilbert (#7) and Mesa (#13). Of course my wife and I met while living in Provo (#1).
Funny — I’ve always thought of myself as somewhat of a moderate politically. Maybe I have just been living around super conservative folks for so long it just seems that way…
Given that the group that put this study together is racist and promoting a black v. white political division; I doubt its findings. Period.
I have lived in both Provo and Detroit… fit in fine both places, except got kicked out of my BYU graduation ceremony due to “Stop Geneva*” written on top of my mortarboard cap.
Bottom line is that folks is folks.. you get along if you want to.. or find offense if you want to. Come to think of it… and looking back, I think was looking for offense at the BYU graduation ceremony.
*Geneva was steel mill pouring pollutants into the Provo Valley air at a progigious rate, unsure if it is still there.
Brother Geoff, my point was to tweak you for refering to the Bay Area as northern California. As one with grandparents, great-grandparents, and great-great-grandparents buried in Shasta and Trinity Counties, I feel duty-bound to do that every now and then. Once when this come up, the other person joked, “Well, that area’s Oregon as far as I’m concerned.”
That’s exactly what I thought, Stref. Great case.
For the non-lawyers out there, Stref, #5, is referring to Hialeah’s one claim to fame (other than being called “Havanaleah” by locals) the City of Hialeah vs. Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, which made it to the Supreme Court. I am not from Hialeah but currently live just 10 miles from that great city of apartment buildings and strip malls. I’m from Northern California.
John M, I’m a bit slow on the uptake, as usual. We Bay Area people consider northern California everything from Carmel north. Redding/Yreka/Shasta County/Eureka people consider it from Santa Rosa north. Depends on your perspective I guess.
Geoff,
One claim to fame? What about horse racing and Jai Alai?
Yeah, in addition to the chicken and goat sacrifices.
Porter: Geneva has been closed down for years; and was sold, as scrap, to a Chinese company. Unknown whether they have already moved the ‘scrap’ overseas or not.
Yes, Porter, never underestimate the power of masking tape on a mortarboard!
Most of the scrap is still there Lyle.
They apparently sold the place although there was some controversy last month about whether the company (who payed I believe $55 million) would back out. But a lot of stuff got torn down this summer.
If I may go slightly OT here… as a student at BYU I never understood why the Provo Orem Valley, full of incredible natual beauty, good quality of life, and a really smart, educated and consciensious work force that would work’s dirt cheap.. and for some reason the city fathers there thought the economic future of the place rested in the 8 dollar an hour steel mill jobs.. and in the process allow the plant to foul the air (winter inversions were unbearable)… driving away other businesses.
It just never made any sense.
Porter:
Your complaint is classic presentism. Geneva was built by the federal government during WWII, so that steel production could continue in the event that the Japanese destroyed west coast steel mills. Not a bad idea. No one anywhere was thinking about air pollution at that time (Silent Spring, which is often credited with starting the environmental movement, was published in 1962). Even if the city fathers did make the decision you credit them with, it was probably the right one, as Geneva (along with the Church) was the biggest private employer in the area for decades. And it certainly paid skilled worker far better than 8 bucks an hour (adjusted).
I had to look up presentism in the dictionary; I bow to your linguistic excellence. (I am going to start using that term; it’s a good one. I think anti’s use presentism to wrongly judge actions of some of the early Saints. I have always felt that way, but never had a good word to peg the feeling on. but that is a different post for another time.) It was a good use of the word based on what I posted, but when I better explain myself I don’t believe you will still think it fits my complaint.
My complaint was that at the time I was there, it seemed the city fathers had no vision or confidence in the valley as a potential high-tech economic powerhouse. They seemed to not notice the valley’s unbelievable beauty, quality of life and an educated, smart work force that accepts low wages. At the time Word Perfect & Novell were red hot, and they could have really built a high tech mecca. Instead, all they could talk about was getting Geneva Steel re-started. And the problem was, Geneva put so much pollution into the air, it made the valley much less appealing to other businesses. But in their eyes, Geneva could do no wrong. They were politically powerful, even sponsored “Geneva Steel Man of the Game†at BYU Football games.
A great example was when Arden Pope, a BYU epidemiologist did a groundbreaking study on how air pollution effects health.
http://magazine.byu.edu/bym/1997/97fall/pope.html[Editor Note: Fixed Link]
He studied hospital admissions when Geneva was open vs. when it was shut down. When it was open 3 times as many children were admitted to the hospital with respiratory ailments. They found admissions for bronchitis & asthma was twice as high when the mill was operating. They also found increased absenteeism from elementary school. So what was the apologists’ response; attack Pope, and (ignorantly) say “that just goes to show you what an economic impact Geneva has on this valley, parents could not afford to take their kids to the hospital.†Pope then used his data to show all other hospital admissions were essentially the same.
My complaint was not that the plant existed, it was over the desire of Provo & Orem to trade the health of the valley’s children along with the natural beauty of the valley for a bunch of 8 (or 10 or 12 or whatever) dollar an hour jobs. They were willing to do anything to get it re-started, and in the end blew a great chance to build that economy in other directions. I used to wear a blue jacket with 4†gold lettering around campus with “Geneva Sucks†embroidered on the back. (Had a hard time getting the lady at the embroidery place at the Orem Mall to apply such a rude statement.)
I wish I still had that Jacket; you know, to pass on to the kids.
Sorry, blew posting that link to Pope’s work. Meant to highlight:
http://magazine.byu.edu/bym/1997/97fall/pope.html
somehow I linked the entire second half of the post.
I am new to this… I am going to use that “preview” button from now on.. sorry.
Porter:
Thanks for clarifying. The powers that be certainly faced different decisions in the 80s and 90s than they did in the 40s and 50s. But I still think you underestimate the economic contribution of a large steel mill in what was a mostly rural, agricultural area.
You are probably right.. I was a stupid idealistic college kid… still exhibit a propensity to be stupid.
One of my favorite recent voting findings is the very close correlation between net transfer payments from the federal government and voting. Specifically, states that get a lot more from the federal government than they pay in taxes vote Republican, whereas states that pay more taxes than they receive in goods and services vote Democrat–and the wider the tax-receipt margin, the greater the voting margin for the respective party.
Funny how ideology and reality fail to map onto each other, huh?
Sorry–last comment from me. Serenity Valley’s been using my computer again!
What is your definition of “get a lot more from the federal government than they pay in taxes”?
I tend to vote Republican or Libertarian (I admit to voting Democratic half a dozen times and Green once or twice, but amongst the hundreds of votes I have ever cast, that’s not much) and I “get a lot more from the federal government than they pay in taxes” from the Earned Income Credit (basically I pay a very small amount every year in federal income taxes. When tax refund time comes around, I get over 12 times the amount I paid back. So do most every other married with kid college student I know).
Great stuff. I love the EiC. It’s about the only way I can stay in college and still support a family.
Not that that proves anything about Provo, but I guess a large precentage of those living in Wyview and Wymount (the married student housting) are “get[ting] a lot more from the federal government than they pay in taxes” and still vote conservatively.
Of course, there are always exceptions to the rules.
I was wondering if it had more to do with defense contracts, military bases, other federal workers “getting more.”
If we are talking straight federal income taxes, cost of living could play into that. Everyone knows people on the coasts have higher costs of living and higher wages…..which would mean higher income taxes.
I also agree with Ivan that age can be a factor. YOu pay less in taxes when you are young, or have dependent children, and have a mortgage. YOu pay more taxes when you get older or your kids are no longer dependents and your house is paid off. I’m not sure about retirement income and taxes since there are many different ways money is taxed, but depending on how their income is structured it can affect someone’s tax owed or not owed.
I am willing to bet that if you compare all the 34 year old married women with 3 children and all the 34 year old single women without children, you would find some differences. I’m conservative politically. And I know I pay less in taxes than most 34 year old single woman.
I think it has everything to do with the fact that the “conservative” areas tend to be rural… and per person, building a highway through Nebraska shows up as an awful lot of “federal dollars per person” then the more liberal cities, where any federal public works project is much cheaper on a “per capita basis” just due to the fact that the population is dense.