I’ve taken some heat on-line for not letting my kids watch TV. We watch a lot of movies, probably two or three new ones a week, but I get Cleanflicks and choose carefully what type of movies my kids watch. Interestingly, my kids don’t complain about it. You’d expect the complaints of “Mary gets to watch TV, why can’t I?” but frankly it never happens. The kids know the only TV I allow is BYU TV (and the occasional sports program), so they don’t ask. And you know what — my kids sure do read a lot and get nearly straight A’s in school, so I must be doing something right. It’s kind of fun to hear them tell their friends they shouldn’t be watching certain types of programs or movies.
Well, now we have a new study that shows that the amount of sex on TV has nearly doubled in seven years.
I quote from the story:
One main concern of legislators is whether the proliferation of sex on TV is contributing to teenage pregnancy. Last year, a Rand Corp. survey of 1,792 adolescents found that teens who watched a lot of sexually suggestive TV shows were almost twice as likely to have sex earlier than teens who didn’t.
And again:
The results from the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation also found that the number of sexual scenes in sitcoms, dramas and reality shows nearly doubled since 1998, while depictions of abstinence or “safe sex” were on the wane
Anybody willing to join me in just turning off the TV set at home? How about making sure that you only have one TV set and that it is in a public place so kids can’t watch sexy shows without your knowledge? What do you say?
NOTE: On another thread that discussed this issue, some people who work in television commented that we should not blame the medium. Their point is valid. TV in itself is not evil — it is the stuff that gets put on TV that is evil. The telephone or the internet are not evil, but people put them to evil uses every once in a while. So, I will start watching TV again when the preponderence of programs have no sexual content, no profanity or violence, and are uplifting and positive. That day will come…during the Millennium!
Oh workable V-chip technology, where art thou?
Geoff, why not channels like The Discovery Channel or the Science Channel or even KUED?
It seems like simply restricting shows is better than restricting channels.
One thing to do is simply program a PVR to record the shows you want.
Clark, agreed. Obviously, there are some good shows on. But I simply have not found enough to justify even turing the darned thing on. And every time I do, and go surfing through the channels, even briefly, I encounter something objectionable.
I gave up TV back in 1998 when I realized that I was wasting time and money with it. I had some favorite shows I would watch, but because of those, I didn’t work at my home business at all. So not only was I spending money to have digital cable, but I was losing money by not working.
Later I signed up for NetFlix and found that I was doing the same thing again–so that was cancelled.
Once I added those two together, I called and cancelled my cable. Lots of people, as they found out, just couldn’t comprehend life without TV and thought I was nuts. But I’m so very glad I did it. My spouce, when we got married, has never cared either.
We have a TV set, but it is used to watch videos from our moderate library and rentals (usually free from the public library). And we are very selective of those. Both of us went through the painful process of cleaning out our video libraries–losing some of our most favorite feel-good movies because they contained inappropriate material.
Becoming more sensitized, I found that even some of my most innocent movies (I like kid movies) had things hidden deeply inside them that led me to abandon them as well. Now we are working on reaching the point where we turn off a rental when it has those same inappropriate items. We’re about half-way there on that.
When we travel, we sometimes watch a little TV in the hotel, but quickly realize why we gave it up. It’s so obnoxious and annoying now.
One thing I’ve realized about the garbage that comes through on TV and movies is that we willingly invite it into our homes. Can you imagine inviting people into your home, sitting your children down in front of them, and then having them curse and swear in front of your children? Or worse, having them undress or fornicate right in front of your children? Yet people do it all the time with the shows they watch.
Oh, but it’s different because its on TV right? Sure its different, they reached millions of people instead of just you. Its worse, and still inappropriate no matter how you look at it (which you shouldn’t).
One thing that has recently bugged me is that movie producers don’t seem to feel that using the Lord’s name in vain is an issue–yet to not take the name of the Lord in vain is a commandment, and has been since the beginning. But if a movie has no swear words, it likely still takes the name of the Lord in vain. And again, its like asking someone in off the street to come do that in front of you and your family.
Now, having said all that, TV is a masterful invention and very useful. Like any device it can be used for good or evil. We choose selectively to use it for good in our household. The world seeks to exploit every evil use it can. Many a prophet has spoken about the evils of the media to be careful of.
As for CleanFilms, we considered that, but chose to not do it because in order to edit those films someone has to sit there and watch them. So why would I support and pay for someone to watch (over and over very carefully) those films I don’t support? Also, for every CleanFilm that is generated, they have to purchase the full non-clean film. So you are still supporting the evil, despite being able to watch it without the garbage.
The more money the companies make from their non-clean films, the more they are lead to create additional ones. We must speak loudly, as President Hinckly requested a year or more back, by using our purchasing power for good and by writing to companies to let them know when we disapprove, and just as importantly, when we do approve.
Editor: comment deleted at commenter’s request.
The Poet wrote:
“You’ll see…
I’m working on my abs
I’m working on me
“Oh, I’m kickin’
Yeah, I’m calm
Oh, I’m kickin’
Television
Television
“Stop shopping, even
Stop buying things!”
“I’m kickin’
Yeah, I’m calm
Oh, I’m kickin’
Television
Television”
“Oh, I’m serious
You’ll see”
— Wilco, “Kicking Television”
Books are bad too! Turning off the TV because there are bad things on it is great for some people. Reading is great, but there are bad things in books, underlying meanings, swearing, sex, violence etc. A lot of times it’s harder to screen out and eliminate books than it is TV.
If you use the same criteria you wouldn’t read the Bible or the Book of Mormon because of it’s content.
I like movies, the TV and books, I use them for entertainment, learning and escape. The key for me is balance while staying within my standards.
Geoff, thanks for this post. We don’t restrict TV as much as you do, but we do restrict it quite a bit.
What was an unusual experience for us was the Olympics. First time we’d ever watched network TV together. And me with my hand poised on the remotre during every commercial. That’s what no one mentions: decent shows often have horrid commericials.
I used to hardly ever watch TV, Geoff. That’s partially because I was always off climbing, going to the gym or the like. When I did watch TV nine times out of ten it was watching a DVD. Now that we have a baby and we can’t take off as much, TV is something we can do to relax in the evening. So I watch a lot of TV. I admit it bores me. I’d prefer blogging. (grin) It’s much more interactive not to mention educational. However my wife doesn’t like me doing that. She wants to cuddle with me on the coach.
So I have a lot of shows I watch. Fortunately the last couple of years have seen a Renaissance in good TV. Some shows I used to like, such as Alias, have really gone downhill. But I love Battlestar Galactica, Monk, Lost, Invasion (although last night sucked), American Chopper, This Old House, My Name is Earl, The Daily Show and a few others. With the PVR you just set it up to record and you can watch it when you will.
“Don’t you ever talk that way about television!” – Homer
When my kids were small, we couldn’t afford cable, which means we only had one or two local channels and PBS. So they only watched PBS and VHS movies like Mary Poppins, Herbie the Love Bug, Lion King, etc. I was happy about it, mainly because I didn’t want to have to deal with all the advertising of toys etc that we also couldn’t afford.
But I think there’s a lot of value in television. Our family loves Animal Planet, Discovery, the engineering shows like Modern Marvels, car-making shows like Monster Garage, American Hot Rod, etc. There’s a lot of good stuff on.
I myself was raised by television. All the games I played as a kid? Television shows. (Dukes of Hazard, Eight is Enough, I Dream of Jeanie.)
I think there’s other things that have more impact over your kids than television. I was pretty much a straight-arrow (non-LDS) teen. My cousin who was raised without television in her home got pregnant as a teenager.
My parents didn’t like us to watch TV either. But my friends’ parents didn’t mind. So I spent a lot of time over at my friends’ houses (probably just what my parents had in mind!).
Anyway, the TV/no TV dichotomy is tough. I respect people’s choices, but it seems to me the no TV people get a bit too self-righteous about their decision not to watch TV. I must admit, though, I’d have a difficult time allowing young kids to watch shows like “The O.C.”. Although, “The O.C.” is probably pretty much the modern-day “Three’s Company”, which my parents absolutely forbade us to watch (which made it even more exciting when we got away with it – sorry, Mom). Anyway, I turned out relatively okay, even though I watched a bunch of trashy shows growing up. Anyone remember “Small Wonder” or “Mr. Belvedere”?
I am a TV addict, and quite like TV (tonight I’m heading to a friend’s house for an Alias viewing party, and she’s making cupcakes to celebrate my birthday – I’m 400 months old this month). However, I’ve often thought that if I had kids, I’d ditch the TV. The withdrawals would probably be painful, but I think of how much more I could get done, how much more productive I could be. Why not do it anyway, without kids having anything to do with it? Much as Davis discussed a couple days ago, I’m not as good at acting in my own self-interest. Actually, I’m really bad at acting in my own self-interest.
I’m less concerned about the content as others who have commented, but again, kids don’t factor into it for me. However, I have a few friends with kids who don’t have any TV, and I like how their lives and their kids lives go. For most of them, the sex and language don’t factor into their choice (judging by the limited conversations I’ve had with them about it); they just think there are better things to do with their time. Their kids seem so much better read, do better in school, seem better adjusted to life. Sure, there are good things on TV, as others have pointed out, but I just think there are better things to do with my time.
But I don’t see my TV time going down without some outside influence (i.e., kids). And so I continue with my life of mediocrity.
Gotta go. Everybody Hates Chris is on.
It’s kind of fun to hear them tell their friends they shouldn’t be watching certain types of programs or movies.
Gosh, that SOUNDS like fun! Maybe we all should take a lesson from Geoff in how to raise our kids: TV is bad, telling others what their morals “should” be is good. Very wise.
It’s one thing to make a personal decision to not do something (not watch tv, not eat meat, not live in Utah, etc) but it’s very bad form to insinuate that those who continue to do so are somehow wrong/sinning/idiots/etc. And that you found it funny that your kids are doing it (at such a young age) is really sad. I learn better ethics on Trump.
I agree. And we should not let our kids go to high school because of the foul language and improper dress, nor should we allow them to climb trees for fear they get splinters, nor should we allow them any other activity that might result in something negative.
Wasn’t there a GA talk that said if we shelter our kids too much, we are actually limiting their spiritual capacity (I’m doing a search now).
I am baffled by the defensiveness felt by those who think TV is some great thing and think it is sheltering kids by taking that one thing out of the house. I quite enjoy TV, but I’m not under any illusions that it is something great. Yes, kids are going to be exposed to things at school or friends’ homes. Shouldn’t the home be a haven away from that, though? How is providing just one safe place limiting their spiritual capacity?
Rusty, thanks as always for your uplifting comments on my personal habits. It’s especially positive to see you commenting on the way I raise my kids and my personal ethics. Look, I’m just trying to start a discussion here. I have some opinions on TV, and I thought I’d share them. So you don’t agree. It’s a free country. You think you could keep the snarkiness in check?
But more to your point: my 10-year-old has friends who have absent parents. So, the kids regularly sit around watching R-rated movies and MTV. So, my darling daughter, in an attempt to help her friends, may mention to them that such fare is not really appropriate and doesn’t seem to make them happy (especially if they have nightmares after watching the latest R-rated bloodfest). In your world, Rusty, my daughter should perhaps keep her mouth shut and not tell her friends plagued by nightmares that maybe they might sleep better if they watched something else?
Are you open to the possibility that your comments are perhaps a bit negative and unnecessarily harsh?
Over two years ago my wife and I moved and we simply never hooked the Tv to anything but the xbox. The extra time we have together and the stuff we do is worth turning off the TV. Claire Wolfe, a famous libertarian, said the first thing you should do to liberate your mind was to “shoot your television”.
it is worth not having one.
We’ve never done anything about TV. That is, we’ve never gone through the pain of getting cable or the networks piped into our house–and we’ve never missed it! Sure we watch a lot of videos/DVDs and what not–I love a good movie. But I couldn’t tell you the first thing about what’s on TV.
Maybe that’s why I’m the most uniformed person around here…
Geoff, your explanation is not the same thing as what you originally said. And saying that it’s “kinda fun” to observe it doesn’t help your case. Sure, I don’t have a problem with kids offering to their friends the possibility that certain entertainment might have a connection to their nightmares, but “tell[ing them] they shouldn’t be watching…” is rude, it’s presumptuous, and it’s a possibly false conclusion (bad tv = nightmares).
As far as my snark, I didn’t think it was that hurtful or negative (maybe the bit about Trumps ethics and the “very wise” comment and for that I’m sorry). But Geoff, this post is about your personal habits, personal ethics and how you raise your kids, all of those who agree with you are commenting on those same things, but you don’t notice because they agree with you.
Also, notice I still haven’t made a comment about TV yet, neither supporting or opposing it.
A few years back when I was a student our television blew out and we didn’t replace it for six months or so. Let me tell you, there was nothing that matches the self-satisfaction and gratification you feel when someone mentions a trashy show and you can humbly reply, “I wouldn’t know, I don’t have a television.” The joy! The pride! The deliciously awkward silence! Now that I’ve rejoined the lowly, shallow plebes and replaced my television, I am sometimes wistful for that wonderful, brief period when I was culturally and morally superior to almost everyone I knew. I try to drown out my wistfulness by watching episodes of “My Fair Brady” back-to-back-to-back.
Re: teaching your kids how to “help” their friends make better choices – Rosalynde Welch had a great post on that a few months ago here
Lotta pride showing in this thread.. many very pleased with themselves for not having TV.. but more pleased at the supposed intellectual superiority they can feel over it.
Choosing not to have TV – good decision (although I work in TV so I hope everyone doesn’t join the club, predjiduce shows)
Feeling superior to others because of it – PRIDE – if you don’t understand that.. read ETZ talk on pride from GC (’98 I believe)
I don’t believe TV is evil or wrong, it is just missused by so many. If it were all that repugnant I doubt the Church would own TV stations.
Geoff, how old are your kids? Just curious.
I remember reading President Hinckley’s biography and being delighted that he watches Jim Lehrer’s News Hour on PBS – delighted that he enjoys such excellent journalism (rather than Fox News or some other cable news abomination), and delighted that the Prophet engages with the wider world in this way.
Not that your kids should watch the News Hour (!), but just FWIW….
If you turn off the TV then you have to turn off the Internet also…there is so much more bad stuff on the internet than on the TV and at least with TV you can choose what to watch and how you surf, but with the Internet, there is no guarantee that you won’t get a horrid little nudey pop-up showing up at any one time, as an example only — even with the best popup blocker!! Commercials may be spam, but Internet spam is even worse…so silly, try and create a little balance in your life Geoff and make sure that you have enough self-mastery to turn off bad shows just as you wuold tun off ba and incoherent commentary such as this and at least you will be better able to choose and know more about what is going on around you. Did I lose the spirit for buying a TV, nope!!
I hate to bring this on up, but wasn’t it Elder Nelson and his wife who were watching TV when his passed away unknowingly? Did TV cause the death of his wife, no, silly!! I am sure that they were showing self-mastery and watching something uplifting, and that is the key, TV cvan help us to follow through on AofF13…
Good night now!! I’m going to watch my Sens beat those Bruins, but only in highlights because I wouldn’t want to waste so much time watching good entertaining TV!!
Geoff said: Are you open to the possibility that your comments are perhaps a bit negative and unnecessarily harsh?
I, for one, am most definitely open to that possibility, Geoff. And I realize that my comments, at least, were “negative and unnecessarily harsh.” It’s just hard always observing people writing about their glowingly perfect lives and families- like mine is the only one that has cracks or something. And it may well be.
But I’ll keep trying. Sorry for being harsh.
Anon:
Geoff does have a point that time could be better spent in other pursuits. Since I seriously cut down on my television watching, I have been able to learn several new songs on the piano, finally get enough confidence to actually play in sacrament meeting, and have enough quiet in my life to realize some of the areas, spiritually, where I needed improvement.
Unfortunately, however, despite this vast improvement in the Spirit in my home, my kids are not yet super-geniuses. But Geoff does make a good point about turning the television off.
Geoff asks:
Anybody willing to join me in just turning off the TV set at home?
I’m willing to try that even more than I have already. I will commit to not watching any television, at all, for one week. I’ll let you know how it goes, and how we feel.
I love TV, but we’ve been living overseas since before our kids were born and we’ve never been really able to afford the cable packages, relying on generous family members to send over care packages with videos of a few favorites, so I feel we’ve been lucky with not having so much TV around all the time; however, when we visit the States in the summer, our apartment gets free cable, and it took about 2 seconds for the children to fall in love with Cartoon network, Nick Jr. and Disney. Maybe they love it so much because they don’t get to see it for the rest of the year and regard TV as a summertime treat. (During the rest of the year we do watch lots of DVDs and videos.) We try to be careful, but it’s so much easier without cable. During the summer we are totally addicted — American TV is like a train wreck we can’t take our eyes off of!
Agreed that TV saps your brain.
But haven’t teenage pregnancy rates been going down the past few years? I thought I read that somewhere.
Porter Rockwell,
Some of us prideful folk are really more Grinch-like than prideful. We don’t like all the noise, noise, noise that comes put of that little black box. I can’t stand the radio either! All the noise! Noise!! Noise!!!
I just finished watching the first act of “My Fair Lady.” (On video, mind you) Ah. Now that’s time well spent. Nothing noisy about it at all.
I dont have cable, but i has nothing to do with content. All the good shows are on DVD. I can download…i mean rent… them for free. We are just finishing watching all 9 seasons of the Xfiles (best.show.ever.). Started in like April or something. Next we are starting Lost. Then Arrested Devlopment. I do miss The Daily Show and basketball, and college football saturday mornings…but not enough to deal with 4 hours of beer commercials. All the other shows I can download as soon as they air. We also own many movies. One of our favorites Im sure you’ll love, Kill Bill. Fight Club is also a personal favorite. Hero is a beautiful film you should all watch. We don’t have cable cause its a waste of money and you spend 20 minutes of your hour long show watching commercials. I think the commercials are far worse than the shows. And not for sex and violence, they use studied techniques on how to brain wash…i mean convice you to buy their crap. Advertising I think influences how we think and act much more than than the actual programs. I think advertising has become completly immoral. But, Im a loony anti-capitalist so there you go.
When I want to veg on the couch in front of the Projector (yes, 120 inches of wall covering high-definition glory for us), I play xbox or watch episodes of aqua teen hunger force. Me and my husband have our computers by each other though, so we can ‘be on the computer together’, so mostly i veg by surfing the internet (somehow I always get stuck on here…)
Another Julie,
You should move immediately to Arrested Development doing Lost later. AD is the greatest tv show ever. And I never thought Seinfeld or Simpsons could be topped.
How in the world is it possible to download TV shows???
Bit Torrent, aided by those blessed souls who have cable and tv capture card. I know some who have fashioned a sort of tivo on their linux builds. We use our modded xbox to watch the files we download. This is how we watch 24 during the season. Though, we end up buying and/or renting when the season comes out on DVD also. I’d buy all 9 seasons of Xfiles but it costs 700 bucks, so those come from Netflix…and promptly get ripped to DVD. Interesting though, comcast will now let its subscribers have TV on demand…99 cents an episode and I belive you have unlimited viewing for a week (only worth it if you don’t already have tivo). Itunes you can also download episodes for 99 cents I believe, though Im not sure what their selection is. This in new with the new Ipod with video. So…there are lots of ways to watch good tv with out the stupid commercials now. Which is why advertising is forcing its why into everything else (insert clip of System of a Down here).
And yes, Arrested Development is the funniest show EVER.
Meems, you can download a lot of ABC shows off of iTunes legally. (Albeit at a resolution that is unacceptable to me) It used to be that you could download most TV shows off the internet, but then the networks cracked down over the summer. I used to watch Smallville and Alias with HDTV feeds on my computer. You still can do it, supposedly, but it’s much harder now.
Personally with a DVR the need to download shows is pretty much eliminated unless there is a glich.
Wow, thanks for this info. That’s pretty cool. I don’t have most of the stuff you’re talking about but I do have iTunes. Right now we’re just doing a lot of DVD watching – you can buy them here (they don’t rent DVDs where I am) for a very cheap price. And it’s funny so many people love Arrested Development. I think it’s funny, but my (non-member) husband won’t watch it with me because he feels the humor is too agressive and mean-spirited (even though he has no prob with Seinfeld). Do Mormons have a mean streak?
I will admit that I feel a wave of perceived judgement wash over me when I hear people preach (and yes, that’s what it is) about the bliss of no TV. I will admit that I also feel an internal sigh of, “What would that be like?” and “I could get so much more done!” when I think of trying it.
However, my husband and I are addicted to Lost, Amazing Race, and Battlestar Galactica. The first disc for the first season of Arrested Development just arrived a couple of days ago, and after watching the entire short season of Firefly I just wish that some other network would pick it up and continue the series.
The one thing that I would miss if I gave up TV (we have TiVo so commercials aren’t too much of a problem) would be the discussions and debates that my husband and I have about the episodes. (Although, I’m sure that if we both read the same books we could still have discussions and debates–at a slower pace.)
The one thing that I wouldn’t miss would be the Victoria Secret commercials. If I see one more 99.9th percentile perfect body stripping seductively in front of me I’m going to freak out!
I also want to agree to the comment that the internet can be FAR worse than television, and that children should have all the monitoring and protection that can be provided for them.
And, yes, it did seem a little disturbing that you would applaude your children for correcting others. I thought that was considered rude behavior. Lead by example, not criticism, right? I had a lot of non-LDS friends growing up (in Utah) who felt criticized and judged by most of the LDS kids around them, and who will probably never accept the gospel in this life because of it.
Perhaps it is bad form to make other people feel stupid for watching TV when you don’t, but that’s just a question of manners. But is there any doubt that those who spend 6 hours a day doing something that is stupid are inferior to those who spend the time productively? Don’t we rightly judge people by how they spend their time and energy?
Did anybody see the Foyle’s War series on Mystery!? That was in effect TV apologizing for inflicting Friends on me. First rate.
You seem to assume that TV is not productive. Is it any less productive than spending that time reading or playing outside? Isn’t the debate properly centered on the question: what is the best use of my time? It may be watching a tv show or playing outside or going to the office or reading my scriptures. It seems to me an almost completely situational question. There are times when I am watching tv that I should be doing something else. As there are such times when I am reading, or working, or playing, or spending time with my kids, or even attending church meetings. Add the layer of complexity of content: there may be some better use of my time than reading certain things or watching certain things or attending certain meetings. It seems that bright line rules such as no reading or no playing are far too simplistic for the complexities of trying to become new creatures in Christ.
You are correct that I assume that the enterprise of watching TV is generally not productive.
A few points:
Rusty (#20), no, this is not a post about my personal habits, ethics or how I raise my kids. I used my personal life as an illustration of a larger point — I don’t like TV. I even included the purpose of the post in the title — “No TV.” If it were a post about my personal habits, it probably would have had a different title. The purpose of the post, which most of the posters seem to understand, is not to debate my personal habits, or even to insult the poster, but to discuss whether or not TV is a good thing, and how to handle it.
For example, Paul H (#40) understands the point of this post and makes some very interesting counter-arguments. There are probably times when watching TV may be the most productive thing you can do. How about when Conference is on? Or how about when there is a wonderful two-hour documentary or concert or show on the History Channel? Am I missing these things by banning TV? Quite possibly.
Porter Rockwell in #23 also makes another point worth considering. Are we being prideful by boasting about how great we are for not watching TV? Perhaps. But we get back to the issue of how we can possible discuss anything at all without appearing prideful. For example: “Mom, I got straight A’s!! Can I get my allowance now?” Mom: “Don’t be prideful, son!” I am aware of the sin of pride (the most dangerous sin because it creeps up on you when you are least aware and leads to a whole bunch of other sins). I’m not sure I agree that by making a suggestion to others about avoiding TV that I am being prideful. But maybe I am.
Audrey, #38 makes a comment worth responding to. Apparently I am guilty of not phrasing the above intro to this post as eloquently as I would have liked. Please read number #16. Here is the point I was trying to make and what I should have written: “I am mostly on the defensive. My kids don’t watch TV at my house, and I have taken some criticism for that. In some peoples’ eyes it’s almost as if I am abusing them, sheltering them too much, depriving them of normal social interaction. But to my surprise and relief, they seem to like it. They don’t beg to watch TV and don’t miss it. They get good grades and they read a lot. They like it so much they even suggest it to their friends!” That was the point I was trying to make. Is that phrased better?
We would periodically turn off the TV for a week or so when our kids were little. Those were always nice times.
But I am addicted. Especially now that the kids are out of the house. I keep thinking we should turn off the cable so my husband would spend more time reading.
I just cracked myself up.
How you ever gonna figure out who “the others” are if you don’t watch?
And was Shannons dad (who dies in the SUV accident) the same dude who almost kills Jack’s future wife and that Jack decides to let him die so he can save the girl(in the OR…remember).
Alright case closed –keep the TV and get over it.
cje
Tim J. (#14), here are just three examples from GA talks (one Seventy and two Church Presidents) about sheltering our kids. It seems your sarcasm is misdirected.
A. Theodore Tuttle, General Conference, October 1973:
Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference, April 1979:
Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, April 1983:
My personal experience:
For thirty years, while we were raising our family, our family didn’t even own a television. We rented one occasionally, for general conference. Once I took our entire family, all eleven of us, to a hotel room to watch BYU football. It was the 1990 pre-season game with the number one ranked Miami. Not-quite-yet Heisman Trophy Winner Ty Detmer was at his best, passing for more than 400 yards as the Cougars upset the Hurricanes 28-21. I was just lucky I guess for choosing that particular game, but my kids all agreed it was well worth the cost of the room.
But is there any doubt that those who spend 6 hours a day doing something that is stupid are inferior to those who spend the time productively? Don’t we rightly judge people by how they spend their time and energy?
I thought we weren’t supposed to judge at all. The minute that I consciously think, “that person is inferior” to me is the minute I need to repent.
Gary, #45, once again, a great comment (mostly because you agree with me, but I’m not being prideful!!). But I like the fact that you always back up your comments with quotations from the prophets and apostles.
For those parents who are looking for a simple way to reduce the amount of television their children watch, we’ve had great success limiting TV to the even days of the month. (Every day is either a TV day or a No-TV day.)
This has given them enough TV that they don’t binge on their TV day, and more importantly, has gotten them out of the habit of relying on the TV for entertainment in the first place. It’s now not uncommon that they don’t turn the TV on for several days at a time.
Yeah, we’re not, but I do anyway. Please don’t judge me for it.
Gary,
I appreciate your comments and agree with you. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t guard against these things in our home.
Let me put forth a movie which detailed this perfectly, yet most people missed the symbolism–The Village. These people were trying to escape the evils of the world so they went off and formed their own perfect community so their children wouldn’t have to grow up in such a terrible world. They wanted innocence. Yet they failed because it is not what is around us but what is within us that makes us innocent.
I agree with limiting TV for kids, however I find an enjoyable activity with my 4-year old son. Every weekend night we sit down, pop some popcorn, and watch Justice League together on Cartoon Network. It’s something we both look forward to immensely. Afterwards, we read about 5 or 6 books, he has most memorized, and then he’s off to bed.
I feel taking TV out of the equation limits one’s choices and thus stunts their growth in a way. I am happy that Geoff’s kids don’t even ask to watch TV anymore. If this is the case, is there still a need for a no-TV rule?
Matt, #48, that was exactly the type of suggestion I was looking for in this thread. Thanks. Gary #50, I guess it depends on your definition. The kids don’t ask to watch TV, so there’s no reason for me to lay down the law, but the rule is still on the books.
For those of you who feel preached at by those who have a different opinion than yours, I’ll try to convey my feelings less didactically this time.
Turn that damn thing off!
All the noise! Noise!! Noise!!!
Amen, Tim J. (#50)! The best comment yet! Do you want to be a bunch of ‘Village’-rs, or how about being a little balanced in your life?!?!
I just do not understand how you can watch movies and have the internet in your home and not allow yourself, even, to watch TV?!?! It is a complete contradiction and then to go about and preach the evils of TV as if we were all neanderthals of Satan for even thinking the very thought! Complete and Utter Cerebral Chaos! In the world of the proud, we would call you a hypocrite, but since we are not allowed to be prideful neither, especially in this thread, then you are not, in politically correct terms, but in reality, what say ye techno-neophite?!?!
Sure, if you don’t want to watch TV in your house that is your own doing, or undoing, but don’t go around extolling these virtues upon those of us that benefit very effectively from TV. How do you know that TV is really that bad when you haven’t even tried it for the good that it is? Yes, I know, you have watched TV in the past, and you now find it offensive, but so do the majority of us see that very thing, but in reality there is good to the TV, and not enough bad for me to turn it off fully and completely. You ban one type of media, then you really need to ban them all if you think through this in detail. Do you let your children on the internet, or how about play with non-members, or listen to the radio, or read newspapers, or magazines, etc?!?! Use a little common sense man and stop being such a prude!! ‘TV was given for the benefit of Man!’ M&C89
TV can be both bad or good depending on the application of the technology.
Same with video games, the internet, or anything else.
I keep having Kip Dynamite singing “I Love Technology” in my head as I read this. I also have Bad Religion’s “Television” coming to mind. Quite the conundrum.
Anyone seen Bubble Boy?
Audrey–you like Battlestar but hate VS ads? What’s up with that? Don’t you know that Six IS a VS model? Yes; in real life. And talk about a racy show!
Yes, because Satan could never do that:
http://scriptures.lds.org/matt/4
“I used my personal life as an illustration of a larger point — I don’t like TV“
Come on Geoff, this is absurd. The fact that you don’t like TV is not a larger point! If you were to say the above sentence as “TV is bad” then yes, that’s a larger point, and I’d be okay debating that in and of itself. But saying that the larger point is your opinion and then suggest that it’s not your personal habits we’re talking about, that’s just silly!
FWIW Geoff, I have no problem with you making this decision for your family, I would never make the same decision, but I trust that you are doing what you feel the Lord is directing you to do and I applaud that. What I’m uncomfortable with is the insinuation that the Lord is actually directing us all to do the same.
I have 3 kids ages 8,6, & 1.5. (My oldest adores TV, my middle child doesn’t care, and my youngest is young enough that I use TV so that I can get something done) I think one of the most difficult things about TV is that it is addictive. Moderate TV watching is possible, but it is very difficult to enforce from a parent standpoint, and it is difficult for children to enjoy since they wish for more. The more TV you watch, the more they want to watch. The less they watch, the less they care.
I have been trying to “limit” TV, but have found it extremely difficult. In order for a limit on TV to be successful, you need to establish a routine that is predictable and that the kids understand and can count on. I have not yet found the “ideal” time for TV, so a certain time limit becomes so difficult for me to enforce.
Over the past week I have been considering this idea and have come to the conclusion that NO TV is actually much easier than a little TV, from both my convenience, and for my children’s sake.My new plan is now to have no TV Monday-Friday (for the kids).
So, that is my radical new plan. I hope that I have finally found the ideal plan, because I have struggled for years with how to really do this.
Perhaps some of you have routines that have naturally limited TV time, or perhaps some of you have children who are different than mine, or perhaps you are simply better at this than me.
All I know is that “just a little TV” hasn’t come easily in this family.
My 4 year old would watch TV all day if he could (there were probably some days that was accomplished, much to my chagrin), and the only remedy I see, is too redirect his attention. There are other things that he enjoys doing and it is simply a matter of finding an alternative activity.
I think the biggest reason kids get so hooked on TV is because as parents (myself included), we find it so easy to just let the TV occupy their time so we don’t have to, thus freeing us to do whatever we wish. This is difficult, and I am indicting myself here, but I feel this is the key.
Why is everybody so up in arms because some have made the wise decision not to watch TV? It’s not our fault that TV is evil.
Jack, you are right, none of it is out fault, we just succumb to the terrible dilemma that is TV…’To watch, or not to watch?’ i say watch…WHATEVER, WHO REALLY CARES, TURN THE D$&*! THING OFF ALREADY!!
Somebody- Yes, Battlestar has a highly sexed element to the show. We watch it on the TiVo so that we can fast forward through those scenes, but that doesn’t justify it. I guess I’m just hooked on the story, and we should probably think about not returning to watch it next season.
Highy sexed TV is probably one of the reasons why pornography is so rampant in today’s society. If I could guarantee that my son would never become addicted to pornography, I would give up TV altogether in an instant. Maybe that is reason enough to try.
Tim J. (#50) said,
Anonymoose (#53) said,
Rusty (#58) said,
No TV, a viable LDS option
Wm. Grant Bangerter of the Seventy, General Conference, April 1984 (regarding the “prude” label):
Carlos E. Asay of the Seventy, General Conference, April 1992 (regarding “balance”):
Other comments published in the Ensign (regarding boxing up the TV):
While it isn’t a commandment, boxing up the television is indeed “a viable option” for balanced, non-prudish Latter-day Saints.
I’m now convinced I need to box up my TV, do away with the internet, homeschool my kids, blindfold my kids as we drive to church to avoid the billboards, only allow them to play with “pre-screened” lds friends (whose parents also boxed up their TV), chaperone every teenage son’s/daughter’s date until marriage, etc., etc., etc.
That quote by Elder Asay is one of my favorites. Feeling sheepish for Kill Bill references now. But, don’t feel like watching Xfiles or Lost or 24 are a problem, and also feel like for me personally (Im sure our viewing habits will change drastically when kids come into the picture) my entertainment has little sway on me in that regard. I dont think all TV or mass media should be lumped over to Babylon. There is room for entertainment in Zion!
We should just all agree that MTV and Friends are to blame for TVs bad rap and agree to never watch them.
Gary,
Oh give me a break. When someone is saying we should have balance they’re not saying we should have a balance of PBS and Playboy or a balance of uplifting and downgrading, they’re saying that it’s okay to have a balance of reading, playing outside, and watching tv which should be adjusted to the individual’s particular situation.
Of course no TV is a viable option, and as I’ve said to those who have made that decision, good for you! But to insinuate that it’s the best option suggests that everyone else isn’t following the Lord (in that particular thing).
Yes, Gary. I see it all so clearly now. The Brethren have spoken. The thinking has been done. I am so very grateful that I do not need to use the brain God gave me to decide whether to have a TV, how much time I should spend watching it, or which shows I should watch. I will repent of my independent thought now that I have seen that my priesthood leaders have already analyzed the issue thoroughly and provided a convenient one-size-fits all prescription. Thank you for your thoughtful gathering of quotes. I testify that by blindly following these men, and Geoff B. as well, that great blessings will come and I will be able to avoid the evils of the world like “Jeopardy” and “House.” Also, thanks for letting me know that the Lord is now using the names W. Grant Bangerter and Carlos Asay. I was previously unaware of this fact before reading your comment.
Interesting to note that Gary includes actual quotations from General Authorities in his comments while our many snarkers can only offer sarcasm and outrage. By their fruits you will know them…
On the other hand–
All the noise! Noise!! Noi–alright, I’ll be serious for a moment here. No one can deny the good that TV has to offer. There’s tons of wonderful educational programing and what not. And once in a while I’ll take advantage of those good things–you know, like watching general conference. I much prefere to watch GC on TV than going through the rigor of getting dressed and heading over to the church. Yes! TV can be a great blessing!
But I have to say that when our TV stopped working way back when–when I was a teenager(and I mean WAY back when), I discovered that life went on. It was aMAZing. I mean, life actually went on with out TV. In fact, I found that I had more time to do the things that I really wanted to do–like playing the piano, or playing basketball, or building model trains, or what have you. I didn’t miss TV at all.
So, what it boils down to for me is: why? Why should I go back to watching TV? If someone else wants to watch TV, that’s fine. Obviously there’s a lot of smart people who watch a lot of TV. I’m not going judge them for wanting all that Noise! Noise!! Noise!!! in their lives. In fact, I cannot honestly say that I’m using my time better than those who watch TV. To a large degree, I’ve merely traded one frivolity for another. It’s just that the other doesn’t have all the NOISE!
Thanks Jack.
Geoff, the problem we have isn’t the fact that people aren’t watching TV–seems fine to me. It’s the holier than thou attitude that accompanies it and leads people to believe that they are more righteous because of this decision. You yourself stated that you enjoy your kids’ admonishing their friends about the shows they watch. You tried backtracking-but too late.
Just as the wicked mocking the righteous from the spacious building is wrong, so too is the righteous mocking the wicked.
Careful, Tim!
I’m sure you didn’t mean to suggest that those who watch TV are the “wicked” who are being mocked on this thread. ;>)
You’re right that we need to be careful not to marginalize others who have differing opinions. On the other hand, if someone’s going to get snarky let them use snarks that don’t have wiskers on them! Sheesh.
Not wicked-just less righteous.
As for the holier than thou attitude…I have noticed that all mormon parents tend to do this regarding many of their parenting decisions and it is a huge pet peeve (mostly because my inlaws are the worst about this). See, the pray and receive personal revelation as to their children…the problem is they think their PERSONAL revelation applies to the church as a whole. Thus when the other members of the ward let their kids watch Simpsons or PG-13 movies or GASP play video games, or when a women in the ward wears a two piece (approximatly 1.2 inches of her stomach was showing!) or brother jones lets Bobby grow a goatee (but thats not BYU standards!), they judge judge judge. Biggest hinderance to establishing Zion, IMHO.
thanks Rusty, and yes, balance in the event of comments above means exactly that I do have balance of playboy and treehouse, or wait, sorry, not playboy you sillies… but it means that I go for walks, and in fact run marathons, i play outside with the neighborhood kids, i work hard at my career, I serve faithfully at church, i take continuing ed courses at the local university, and last but not least I pray and read scriptures daily…i forgot, i do actually talk to my wife once in awhile, too…and i pay my tihing too…o wait, yep just checked, my temple rec is also current, thank goodness or they might fire me from my Bishopric position!! I’m also teaching EMS in two weeks and i also find time monthly to HT my 6 assigned families…and last but not least, I will find time to watch my Sens-ationals once a week on a TV that i own in my own house, the great evil!! Perhaps I am out of balance then and should stop watching TV because it doesn’t balance with the rest of the junk in my life as described above!!
boxing up the TV is perhaps a viable option for members, but not for all as that would be assenine to think that there is no good in TV…time to get a life people and stop with the absurd!!
Yeah, Zion wouldn’t be Zion without the Simpsons, PG-13 movies, or (gasp) vidoe games.
Anonymoose,
C’mon man, there are children in Ethiopia who have never had the priviledge of watching TV. Now box that thing up and ship it to them! Now! Who cares about balance when there are media starved children in the world.
Jack,
No, I just won’t do it, it would be too painful to let it go and then where would I find my mindless balance? Through other things, ACCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK, JUST SHOOOOTTTTTT MEEEEE NOOOWWWWWWW….BTW, can you fire me from my Bishopric calling in the mean time, it creates an imbalance in my life…the real reason though for not boxing it up is because my wife would shoot me because she wouldn’t get to watch ‘America’s Next Top Model’!
Sorry Jack, do you see the lack of possiblities here, I just love my wife too much?!?!
Notice that Geoff has kinda gone away now with little to say to us snarky little blog trolls, perhaps he is watching TV in a secret combinations sort of way?? Boo-yah, we win!!
Titus 1:15 says, “Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.”
Reminds me of a story about a grandpa who was taking a nap in his favorite chair. His grandkids decided to play a trick on him so they went to the refirgerator and got the stinkiest chees they could find and rubbed a little of it into his mustache. After a few minutes, he began to stir and awoke. He said, “something stinks in here” and he went to the kitchen to try to get some relief. Taking a breath, he said, “something stinks in here, too.” So he went outside, sure he could get some fresh air there. He took a deep breath and concluded, “the whole world stinks.” I guess we all see what we want to see in the world.
C’mon people, reign in the rhetoric.
As for the holier than thou attitude…I have noticed that all mormon parents tend to do this regarding many of their parenting decisions and it is a huge pet peeve
My pet peeve is people who go from “some people” to “all people”… (grin) I’m fairly confident not all Mormon parents do this.
I think we have to all be careful not to presume too much. Sometimes we assume what works for one works for all. In either directions. Some criticize Geoff for daring not to watch TV and suggest it as a good choice. Others criticize those who do watch TV and let their kids do the same.
Speaking as someone who, as I admitted earlier, watches a lot of TV and plans on letting his kids watch selective TV, I didn’t take Geoff’s comments as judgmental in the least nor as criticizing my own decisions. Nor would I presume that what works for Geoff’s family is somehow bad, odd or a sign of something wrong in Geoff.
In my own life I’ve done many different things with respect to entertainment. Some have led to me being more spiritual than others. But at the same time I also need to relax, and sometimes I get tired of reading, of blogging, and don’t have the opportunity to leave the house to go hiking or the like. TV is a nice alternative. I’m glad we have it as an opportunity. I don’t think it intrinsically cuts down on people’s communication (anymore than I think the internet does) It can in some. But what we have to do is each examine our own lives honestly and with careful scrutiny and see what can improve them. (Typically I think more exercise is good for everyone – but that’s not necessarily opposed to television given all those TVs at the gym I frequent)
I’m sure if I look real hard I’ll find something redeeming about child-p*rnography.
Comment #82 is in response to #79
Tim J. (#65) Just exactly how does the decision to eliminate television force one to all of those other behaviors? Are you suggesting that someone willing to “stunt their growth” might just as well be thorough?
Rusty (#67) The words “it isn’t a commandment” acknowledge the Lord isn’t directing everyone to do the same. You may now take your break.
BL Zebub (#68) Yes, I see your position clearly now as well—your brain works fine but mine doesn’t, especially when I “blindly” use counsel given by “my priesthood leaders” to help me make decisions, or worse yet when I share that counsel with others.
Geoff is taking some heat here for not letting his kids watch TV. He has given some excellent reasons for his decision. As the Prophet Joseph Smith said, “Hit pigeons always flutter” (HC 6:170). So continue on with the snide remarks, fellow bloggers. Flutter, flutter, flutter.
Gary,
I’m not saying it leads to the other activities, I’m just equating it to them, and, yes, it was sarcastic and snarky. BTW, I don’t mean to get snarky and I do sincerely apologize. My sarcastic side somtimes gets the best of me, so for that I’m sorry.
I’m more out of the “teach correct principles and let them govern themselves” camp. Geoff has taught his children well, they don’t rely on TV for entertainment–and I applaude him for it. But now I think (if the kids are old enough) they should be able to make their own choices (and possibly mistakes) and not have these rules. If they were taught correctly they will continue living these principles–if not, then, I believe it has failed.
Jack, I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Surely one can argue that people focus on the bad rather than the good without suggesting that in many cases the evil is so extreme as be dangerous. I don’t think one should equate say Three’s Company with child pornography.
the problem is they think their PERSONAL revelation applies to the church as a whole
Sometimes we assume what works for one works for all. In either directions.
Exactly.
Again, I have no problem with those here who have made that personal decision. All I’m saying is that it’s off-putting to insinuate that your choice is/would be the best choice for everyone (especially when it’s not a commandment).
It’s the same as me getting on my blog explaining that I made the decision to wear church clothes all day on Sundays and made my kids do it and how it’s blessed our lives and that EVERYONE should do it because can’t you all see the blessings? Street clothes on Sunday has had very little fulfillment for me and it’s obvious it’s had the same effect for you too… what do you say people? No more street clothes on Sunday!
Absurd.
As in every case, there is the perfect Onion article.
We use tivo to skip commercials and fast forward through anything innapropriate. The huge amount of channels means we can pick and choose the few shows that are ok for our daughter. Just pay attention to what is going on and all is well.
Having not read through all 88 posts I galantly state my opinion.
TV-good, books-good, going outside to play-good. To the pure all things are pure according to a good source.
If you want better content rent movies from Clean Flicks or watch the BYU channel. The history channel and CNN or C-SPAN are all exellent receptacles of information. This is not an advertisment for CleanFlicks.com (where you can be a gold member for only $29.99 a month). Seriously I’m not affiliated with CleanFlicks but I’ve used their service to watch movies like Matrix (an excellent film, I’d reccomend to any adult), Saving Private Ryan (a terrific movie that shows a more realistic depiction of war), Patriot (a movie that lets you look in on the men and women involved in the Revolutionary war in a way that books just can’t convey).
I’m not saying you should turn on your TV anymore than I’m selling you an IPod for music, but there is a lot of good music out there and a substantial collection of worthwhile film. Cleanflicts or some other editing establishment can minimize your potential exposure to the world and you can further you avoidance of being “of the world.”
Clark,
I was responding to the quotation of Titus 1:15 in comment #79. We’ve heard a lot of anguished cries about hypocisy and what not, but what about the implication that anyone who is offended in anyway at the media must be impure in someway? Are the brethren impure because they suggest that somethings ought to be avoided like the plague? Perhaps I went over the top with my little rebuttal, but I was merely following the path of logic that was set before me.
Heli, in #89, at least has the good grace to say it this way: “To the pure all things are pure *according to a good source* which implies some level active judgement on our part.
We recently moved and found out it was going to take some funds to get cable wired to our house. So we decided to just go with the rabbit ears for a while. The result: the basic stations (ABC, NBC, etc…) suck so bad and come in with such poor reception that I really only watch the Simpsons anymore. I didn’t go out of my way to stop watching lots of TV; I just happen to be cheap. I do miss ESPN though. A lot. But only when I think about it.
I wonder if the results of this study were completely skewed by them including the show “Sex and the City.”
From the article:
73% of news magazine shows have sexual content?
We don’t watch many sitcoms at our house. Only a few dramas. No news shows at all. (Except for Jon Stewart, of course.) Mostly reality programming, I guess.
In other news, 99.9% of married couples have sexual content…
100% of Shakespearian comedies have sexual content…
It’s not really an issue of whether there is sexual content but how it is handled. That’s why these things aren’t as helpful as it first appears. It seems to me that how the sexual content is handled on a show like say Seventh Heaven might be different than on say The Real World. Equating the two seems erroneous. The news statistic really means it is kind of pointless. That means that it equates a story about say rape on the evening news with a story about Madonna’s escapades in the early 90’s or the latest sex tape from Paris Hilton.
And there’s another great Onion article, about the valuable skills that TV watching develops: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29208
90:
I included the quote from Titus to demonstrate how easy it is to take a statement from a General Authority and use it to make whatever point you want to make. I am not really all that impressed whenever Gary cuts and pastes a bunch of quotes from various and sundry GA’s. He uses this method as a sort of “trump” card, avoiding the give-and-take of reasoned discussion by trotting out GA quotes that he thinks support whatever position he has taken. He has done the same thing with the whole “no death before the fall” debate on earlier posts dealing with evolution (I don’t feel like finding and citing to them; suffice it to say, those who are regulars at this blog know exactly what I am talking about.)
Geoff B. appears to find Gary’s methods persuasive (see comment #69 above, implying that those who don’t employ similar methods are false prophets). Ths funny thing about the whole “quote-your-favorite-GA” means of advancing an argument is that people who agree with one’s position generally will approve of your method. When someone posts a GA or scriptural quote that differs from one’s position, calls for “reigning in the rhetoric” immediately ensue.
One thing I like about having a VCR that works but a TV that doesn’t get anything but fuzzy channels is the following: You can pause a video to stop and carry on a conversation with a live member of your family. The TV stops for no-one.
I’ve noticed that that in itself makes for a reduction in stress and an increase in good communication in our family.
Eric S. (#95), The problem with your logic is this: There simply are no statements you could quote as arguments against the five statements I’ve shared on this thread. And my position on No Death Before the Fall speaks for itself.
Having read through all this thread, a couple of observations:
1. Someone suggests not watching TV.
2. Hordes of angry TV watchers descend on him with the assumption that he thinks himself to be superior.
3. Devils and angels quote scripture to support their claims.
4. Children who see TV are doomed to a life of evil; children who see no TV are doomed to be mindless imbeciles.
5. Everyone has their favorite TV shows, which are totally blameless and without guile.
6. Hurricane in a demitasse.
Well, there you go. Just TALKing about TV brings out the worst in us.
Transfixated on the big blue screen,
It’s your window to the outside,
A melancholy dream,
A medium upon which you build reality,
This episodic currency,
That everybody needs
Somebody’s delivery lulls you to sleep,
The man behind the weather map,
The editor in chief,
They control two worlds,
Power and disease,
And you cannot suppress your curiosity
But see it’s only entertainment,
Superficial urgency,
Posterboard mentality,
Only entertainment,
Tightly constrained,
The buzz that remains,
Is the story of how we run our lives
Many are the people poor and suffering,
From the lack of coverage,
From the transmission beam,
And if it ever gets here,
You’ll be offended too,
’cause you cannot distinguish,
Chicanery from truth,
See it’s only entertainment,
A superficial episode,
As life continues to unfold,
Only entertainment,
Controlled an copied,
They’ve planted the seed,
That sprouts into your picture of the world,
Can’t someone protect me (turn away, turn away),
From this electron beam,
Hey you, mr.fcc,
Have you no advice for me?
-Bad Religion “It’s Only Entertainment” from Album Generator (1992)
Television, television, television, television
Oh yeah! I want to bask in your golden light,
Submerge in electric waves,
I need my connection to the world outside
The world outside is buzzing like an angry wasp in summer,
The candidates are running, and soon the son of God is coming,
Crackle mental convolutions tune in to the revolution,
Whereby everyone’s included so we’ll never have to be alone
Every atom of my body, blood and sinew, bone and fibre,
I can’t distil you from my blood,
You’re a hungry germ inside of me,
You’re my lover, you’re my heroine,
My conscience and my voice,
And I know that I have learned to let you in i
Will lever have to be alone
I’d take after my mother but she’s from a different generation,
I prefer my big brother he’s so gentle and understanding,
And I learn what I can from him by the television light,
So that when I’m all alone I know everything’s gonna be alright
-Bad Religion “Television” from Album Stranger Than Fiction (greatest punk rock album ever – 1994)
Now now now
I’m just a boy
I watch too much TV
Nobody knows, nobody knows
Casper the Ghost is so friendly
Nobody knows, nobody knows
Sitting in my living room
With nothing else to do
I think I’m going blind
Just like Mr. Magoo
I know every single ending
Of every Scooby Doo
Now
Turn off the idiot box
It’s a disease just like the Chicken Pox
Turn off the idiot box
Now
Find yourself a partner
Turn on the television
And let it control your mind
Friends, Romans, countrymen,
I’ve got something to say
Nobody knows, nobody knows
Get up off the couch
Get up go out and play
Nobody knows, Nobody knows
Turn off the idiot box
It’s a disease just like the Chicken Pox
Turn off the idiot box
Now
Children I want to warn ‘ya
‘Cuz I’ve been to California
Where Mickey Mouse is a demon
Turn it off If you are able
Nobody knows, nobody knows
Take a pair of scissors
And cut off that cable
Nobody knows, Nobody knows
Turn off the idiot box
It’s a disease just like the Chicken Pox
Turn off the idiot box
Now
– The Aquabats, “Idiot Box” from album “The Fury of the Aquabats” 1997
– Originally written and performed by GOGO13, a Ska band from St George Utah
Eric (#95), I’m not quite sure that’s fair. I think that some of the rhetoric on this thread has been a tad too inflammatory, with both sides perhaps reading too much into comments.
With regards to Gary’s quotes, what I found interesting was that they don’t really say that much. Of course no-TV is a valid option. But the quotes from several 70’s don’t suggest we ought get rid of TVs. And certainly we ought condemn shows that promote immorality. And there are a lot that do. I also agree that the charge of “being too righteous” is amazing. I couldn’t believe it the first time I heard that here. However I think what happens, especially here in Utah, is that a hedge of extra commands sprouts up, and then some people judge others as righteous or unrighteous not based upon the commandments or the spirit but based upon how well others follow their new commandments. I think this is what Elder McConkie decried as gospel hobbyism.
Note I’m not saying in the least that anyone here is saying that. Nor am as I saying no-TV is a bad thing. Indeed I think especially for teenagers getting rid of the TV and video games would be a positive move if it got them doing more in the community, in school work, and in physical activity. But I’d be loath to make too broad a generalization from that.
El Jefe (#95), I’m not sure I’d say any show is without guile. However at the same time, I tend to think that one can’t close oneself off from the world to such an extent that recognizing most people in the world don’t share our values. That is, it’s pretty ubiquitous in the world that non-married people seriously dating have sex, people drink, and so forth. If a story takes place among regular people, that will be part of it. The question is, I think, how it is communicated as I said. By the same measure, if you have non-Mormon friends and family, they are also part of that world.
Now if the shows are glamorizing that kind of behavior (as say most MTV shows do) then that’s deeply problematic. I’m not sure I’d let my kids watch MTV for instance. But is, for example, the fact that Jennifer Garner’s character on Alias is pregnant with her dead fiancee’s child really on par with the promotions on MTV?
That’s the question I raise. Is the mere existence of characters who do things we disagree with someone tainted enough so as to ban that media? It reminds me of when I was a kid and a bunch of people were horrified at Superman II because he slept with Lois Lane. Now I tend to agree up to a point. It seemed kind of out of character with how I view the figure. But does that make Superman II unwatchable?
Clark, you raise valid issues. My personal opinion is that we get enough of the “real world” through many other media. I know my kids are going to be exposed to the “real world” regardless of what I do. They have friends who watch R-rated movies and MTV and someday they will sleep over at a friend’s house and watch stuff of which I don’t approve. My oldest girl was nine years old when one of her neighborhood (male) friends showed her pornography on the internet at his house. So, my personal mission is to build one safe space, my house, where my kids can be protected from that stuff and maintain their relative innocence.
Does this mean that nobody should ever watch TV? Obviously not. I was more interested to see how other families are dealing with it. Way up there on this thread, Matt Evans made a good suggestion of having TV watching every other day. That seems like a great strategy. Or you could set a rule of no TV on the weekdays so kids can concentrate on their homework during the week. That was really the purpose of this post — to exchange these types of ideas.
My wife and I do not own a television. Our reasons are two-fold: (1) She can’t stand to watch most typical shows and as a background noise, it really bothers her (2) I am an addict, I admit it, and this is the best way for me to battle my addiction. There are a few shows we still watch on my PC (Dr. Who, Top Gear, Mythbusters…) and we watch DVD movies occasionally. I dont’ miss the TV anymore.
I am happy with the decision in our situation. I am glad for the ‘extra’ time it seems to have created for us. We don’t expect to change our media exposure habits much when we have children.
Go it, Geoff B. and fellow travelers.
I not only gave up TV, but I now no longer look at stereographic pictures, nor dioramas.
Me too. Also, my eyes offended me, so I plucked them out.
Were you able to watch yourself plucking your own eyes out? Sounds pretty surreal.
Not directly, Jimbob, but I recorded it on video. Dude, it’s grue–some.
I’m very sympathetic to the limiting of media in ones house so as to have it be a shelter from the world. At the same time, I’ve seen many sheltered youth go away to college — even BYU — and because of that sheltering they wilt under the pressure. (Hopefully we all recognize sex, drinking and drugs are prevalent even at BYU)
What I tend to think might be more valuable might be watching these milder shows and using them as a catalyst for discussion. (At least valuable in terms of what I plan on doing — not criticizing others who choose differently) Take Alias. One could look at it and simply criticize immorality and keep it out of ones house. Or one could use it as an opportunity to point out the dangers of immorality. One could discuss having to have a child on ones own, for instance. One could use it to discuss the church’s view on morality. That is, use these shows as a building experience.
I think the danger of keeping the world out of our homes too much is that we then don’t prepare kids for the world. Now once again (and it’s a shame I have to make all these qualifications) I’m not saying one needs TV for this. However I do think far too many people make their home such a shelter that they are like a hothouse plant ill prepared for the weather outside. If you don’t teach your children about the world in an honest fashion, they’ll learn about it from the world on the world’s terms.
I would have plucked out my eyes. However, I had previously cut off my right hand because it offended me. And then I gnawed off my left hand, for the same reason. And it’s really not easy plucking one’s eyes out without the use of hands.
If I were more flexible, perhaps I could do it with my toes.
Kaimi–you slacker!
Piggybacking on Clark’s comment, let me refer to Brigham Young’s comments on the utility of evil in fiction and living in a bubble, here.
(FWIW, I mostly grew up without a TV, and I’ve only had cable for about 2 years of my life. My wife and I deliberately watch very little TV.)
Kaimi W.,
What I do whenever I’ve cut my hands off is I knock the beam that’s in my eye against something and out pops the eye pretty nicely. Give it a try.
But until you do that, would you mind leading me? I’m scared of ditches.
It’ll be easy when the cheap oil/natural gas/electricity are all gone. Then you’ll think twice before turning that evil eye on in your house.
Besides, you’ll be so busy working to grow food enough to avoid starving that you’ll have no time to relax.
The problem will solve itself before you know it.
Now that a spammer drew attention to this post, I just want to say that I’m completely with you on this one, Geoff.
Nearly six years since that was written, and I am struck by how nasty some commenters are regarding a harmless issue that affects them not at all. Some people need to really get a life.
Having said that, we probably watch more TV these days than I would like. I am constantly turning it off and telling the kids to go outside and play. But I have discovered a fair amount of TV programs that my wife and I watch on Netflix, among them Battlestar Gallactica, Firefly, Dollhouse, Doctor Who, Lost and now Heroes. So, in terms of interesting programming there is some out there, I will admit. In terms of actual live TV I still only watch the occasional news program and conference on TV. I simply can’t stand the commercials.
Thanks to reality TV, even the formerly “safe” cable channels are no longer so. History, A&E, Discovery, TLC–all have descended into the pit of sensationalism, focusing on the most bizarre, freakish elements of human nature. (It’s been called “cable creep”, with niche channels moving away from their intended niche into that freakish reality genre.) I find enough to justify keeping cable (the family package), but just.
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