The latest edition of Sunstone Winter 2009 is a rich collection of writings by a variety of authors. I have enjoyed and savored each piece including the poetry section, the various columns, and book reviews.
The major part of the winter edition is dedicated to Asia. You will find an article on our family’s adoption experience in China by yours truly in this section. An article by Melissa Wei-Tsing Inouye entitled Mormonism: An Eastern Religion? reveals similarities in LDS doctrine and Eastern religions. I was delighted to learn about truths found in other belief systems. Mei Li Inouye, the author of Mercy, tells a thoughtful short story about a lonely woman who encounters LDS sister missionaries. Thomas Rogers authored Interconnecting At Home and Abroad. His viewpoints are honest as he takes us on his travels to Asia and Europe. He did not travel detached as a tourist, but sought out real awareness with people in exotic cultures.
The diversity of Sunstone is evident in the reading of Brittny Goodsell Jones eye-opening article entitled Skirting An Issue? Cross-dressing and the LDS Church. Nuff said. I now have a window into this facet of the human condition.
Jeanette Atwood’s excerpt from a Book of Mormon graphic novel called Ammon Warrior Missionary is fun for all. Atwood’s cartoon characters are humorous. My kids enjoyed reading this familiar scripture story in cartoon form.
Jeffrey Needle is a reviewer for Association for Mormon Letters. Needle, who is not a member of the LDS church, is a LDS Hobbyist. In other words, Mormonism is his hobby. His particular niche is examining us as a people by reading books authored by members and then reviewing the books. Jeffrey Needle enlightens with an article entitled Reading Mormonism Through Jewish Eyes. He takes us thru his journey of faith first as a devout Jew and later a Seventh day Adventist. What I took from his article I will always remember: In all my years attending synagogue, I can’t recall a single person getting up and saying, I know that Moses was a true prophet of God. I know that the Bible is true. I know that Judaism is true. We Jews just don’t talk like that. Instead, we go about our lives as if we believed those things. A life lived is considered more compelling than a slogan recited. For this reason, a Jew would probably leave a Mormon testimony meeting scratching his or her head. Why all the protestation that one is a Christian? Why all the insistence that Nephi was a real guy? Just live it!
Good advice. Thanks Jeffrey Needle. Thanks to Stephen Carter and all the gang at Sunstone for putting together a truly delightful edition.
I thought it was a terrific issue as well.
And this is Jeffrey Needle saying Thanks for the good words!
Jeffrey, thanks for visiting. I think you need to give more thought to the reasons Mormons keep on saying we think the Church is true. Our entire faith is based on something that happened 180 years ago — not 3,000. Based on what happened then, there is a book that has come about. As Gordon B. Hinckley says, there are only two possibilities about the existence of that book. Either A)that book really was translated by Joseph Smith by the power of God or B)it was written by Joseph Smith and perhaps some accomplices and the entire foundation of the Church is a massive fraud.
You come to know that A) is true primarily through the power of the Holy Ghost. But a tremendous amount of work has been done by apologists and others to show that B) is not a reasonable position given what is actually in the book and the timeframes involved.
So when Mormons keep on saying endlessly they know the Church is true they are 1)acknowledging the Holy Ghost and 2)reemphasizing the prophetic nature of Joseph Smith. As a recent convert, I can tell you the repeated protestations that “we know the Church is true” can get a bit annoying, but there is a strong reason for it.
I am sure I am missing some context in your comments because I have only read the excerpt above, but I thought I’d like to remind you of why we keep on saying these things.
As for your advice about living our religion, well, that’s very good and obvious advice that all of us should take more seriously. Question for you: do you know of another major religion whose members actually do what they say they are going to do more than Mormons? I’m thinking of Catholics who hear about not using birth control but never practice it or Baptists who say they should drink and then do as prominent examples.
Wow! Thanks for stopping by Jeffrey.
Geoff The following statement, “A life lived is considered more compelling than a slogan recited” is what stayed so strongly in my mind. The entire article is a fascinating account of a spiritual journey. We need to remember to ‘walk the walk not just talk the talk’.
Jews, perhaps because they have been around so long, are more confident in their faith. I think that they approach spirituality differently than a Christian. In a similar vein, here is a comment made to me by a Jewish friend on the FMF yahoo group:
“One observation I must share stems from the very tenets of belief vs. behavior in christianity and Judaism: I so easily claim my jewish heritage–with not a shred of evidence–while your christian roots have ingrained habits that need constant analysis. I suppose that Judaism’s unabashed declarations of ‘we are chosen’ is so dogmatic and passive; while Christianity’s duty to convert walks the talk”.
I need to add we, as a people, need to be CONFIDENT in our beliefs.
@Geoff B
Gordon Hinckley may have said it, but that doesn’t necessarily make it true. There are a number of other possible scenarios besides the all-or-nothing Mormons like to present about the Book of Mormon.
In fact, it’s my personal opinion that Mormons are going to have to adopt one of those alternate scenarios eventually, because my assessment of the evidence is that Joseph Smith’s claims about the origin of the Book of Mormon are highly questionable. If we go with the all-or-nothing approach, we could very well end up with a Book of Mormon that is a fraud. Accepting the existence of intermediate scenarios may be all that salvages the Book of Mormon.
A couple scenarios that lie between the extremes of all and nothing are:
1. Joseph Smith received a revelation of the contents of the Book of Mormon, but being the colorful treasure-seeking guy he was, concocted the origin story of an angel and gold plates himself to make it more dramatic.
2. Joseph Smith came up with the whole idea of the Book of Mormon himself, but God took that opportunity to inspire Joseph to include eternal truths within his American romance.
I agree with you that there is a definite reason Mormons keep saying the church is true, but it’s not the same reason you believe. You’ll have to forgive my cynicism, but my opinion is it’s how Mormons keep convincing themselves that they really believe it all when so many of them deep down have doubts that are frightening to face. I speak from over half a century of insider experience when I say that.
I think Jeff makes a good point, that Mormons are just about the only ones that get all obsessive over constantly claiming they know the church is true, and it does indeed make one wonder why.
#5 D. Michael the famous Nude Dude 🙂
This is my take on the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is a sacred document inspired by God. Could there be mistakes in it? Yes, as men did the transcribing. My testimony will never be shaken because my testimony is simple. Hypothetically speaking, if at sometime in my lifetime it is proven that the Book of Mormon people and events did not exist; I will call the Book of Mormon a parable from God. The truths found in the Book of Mormon will always be true no matter what context we put it in. Do I believe that the Book of Mormon is a parable? No, I believe that the events transpired are correct. Do I absolutely know? no, but I absolutely know that the truths found taught in the Book of Mormon are from God.
Great post, Joanna. Perhaps I can get my wife to get me a Sunstone subscription for my birthday. 🙂
Jeffrey,
Thank you for dropping by and commenting.
There is perhaps no compelling witness of one’s faith greater than through living and practicing that faith. Yet, in the scriptures, prophets witness and testify of gospel truths. Moreover, in the New Testament, the Savior testifies of his own divinity as spoken of by John. If living one’s faith is sufficient, why then do we need witnesses?
Moreover, as one who has felt the uplifting power of bearing my testimony and hearing the testimonies borne by others, I cherish the monthly testimony meetings.
@JA Benson
That’s another great example of an intermediate scenario: the Book of Moymon as parable.
Brian, I don’t have any problems with people witnessing to what they believe. I think we’re talking about how exessive it becomes among Mormons.
@D. Michael Martindale
Excessive? How exactly do you determine when witnessing is excessive? That seems a rather subjective determination for someone to make. What you consider excessive and what I consider excessive may be two different things.
If I happen to mention in a testimony meeting that I “know” the Church is true, does that qualify as excessive?
Just to clarify, I’m not trying to be combative with you, Michael, just trying to find out what qualifies as excessive.
D Michael, sorry, both of your scenarios fall into the category of “massive fraud” that Pres. Hinckley mentioned. Either the story is true or it isn’t, and the religion is a fraud (on some level). That is Pres. Hinckley’s point. You can choose to believe in the fraud if you like — that’s what free will is about. Personally, having studied the evidence on both sides for 30 years and rejecting that pro-Joseph Smith evidence for the first 20, I think believing in the fraud involves a lot of self-delusion, but I also recognize that the Holy Ghost is necessary to help people wake up and accept the evidence. That is exactly what testimony meetings are about — publicly testifying of how the Holy Ghost works within us to help us wake up and accept Truth.
Good points Geoff and Brian.
For me the Book of Mormon could not have been written by Joseph Smith. It is too complicated for a poor, uneducated, young adult man on the frontier in the early 1800’s to have made up with or without mortal help. Taking into account that he was a genius, The Book of Mormon is still too complicated for him to have written.
Thanks D Michael for stopping by and Jeffrey thanks again for a great article. I enjoyed reading about your journey and insights.
I too find Jeffrey Needle’s observation interesting. As Mormons we’re taught that a testimony is often found in the bearing of it. We say something we believe, we get a good feeling having said it, ascribe it as a witness of the Holy Ghost, and then believe what we said even more.
Of course, and independent observer might say it’s simply self-indoctrination. The more often something’s said, the more “true” it becomes, regardless whether it is in fact. This seems to be human nature. Consequently, whether or not there is a Holy Ghost testifying, testimony meetings can cause people’s faith to be mutually perpetuating. Mantras have power (eg., AA’s “My name is Dave, and I am an alcoholic”)
I’ve wondered off and on whether my “feeling the Spirit” was simply self-delusion or something real, but it’s brought me both peace and joy, so when it comes right down to it, I choose to believe it’s real. It certainly is real when it comes to motivating my behavior.
Thank you Martin for your intelligent response.
I have analyzed why Jeffrey’s article was so powerful for me. I think it is because I have a social phobia in regards to public speaking. I can give a talk because I have the script in front of me and I have my talk somewhat memorized. Public prayers and testimony bearing are nearly impossible for me to do. I feel really badly about it too. So I think for me, it was touching to realize, how I live my life is a testimony to my faith as well.
(Haven’t read the comments – forgive me if I repeat someone else)
I have to disagree with the comment about testimony. I think it misses the point about why it’s done. In testifying the spirit can manifest the truth of such things. Likewise while modern Jews may not do this (I don’t know one way or an other) it’s hard to miss that such things were common in the OT & NT. Not the claim about a Church (which is anachronistic) mind you. But the same basic gist is especially common in the NT.
Whoops. Not finished.
That said I do agree completely with Jeff that a lived life can be a powerful testimony. However I think it testifies to be good and not necessarily much about God. It may make people interested but there are, of course, many good people outside of the Church who live good lives just as there are real dicks in the Church. So while fruits are important I’m not sure they are as useful as a testimony borne with the Holy Ghost.
Hi Clark,
THREAD JACK ALERT Thanks for stopping by. Earlier I wrote a something about you. Here it is:
“I had discovered the Internet in my late thirties and what a wonderful world it is. First I found the AML-list, and after reading our own Clark Goble extol the virtues of BLOGS; I checked out Millennial Star and a few others in about 2004. I began putting my thoughts into words; something I had not done since childhood. The Bloggernacle stretched my brain and broadened my horizons. It sustained me during a subsequent trial of my faith.” Thanks Clark Goble you made a difference in my life.
Now back to the subject at hand. Jeffrey’s article is really lovely and we are taking it out of context (totally my fault). He told an interesting account of his journey of faith. He is certainly not attacking our testimonies. He is just sharing with us his point of view. His comment is very similar to another comment by another Jew see #4. Apparently modern Jews are not missionary minded so bearing of testimonies, in the vein of selling our faith, is foreign to them.
Living a good life does testify of our gospel to others. Often someone will let the missionaries in because of a LDS person they are acquainted with. My children have been told over and over again in Primary, *Be a good example of a Mormon. You may be the only Book of Mormon that person may ever read.*
I think that he is trying to tell us to be confident in ourselves as a people. It is all good. Also his comment spoke to me because see #14. That is all I was trying to convey.
Wow and I thought that this post might be boring 🙂
JA, you threadjacked your own post??!?!?!? Where are your manners?? 😉
JAB, some children in our ward have a tradition of writing their brief testimonies and reading it from the pulpit. I still think it meets the church’s recommendations of what testimonies in F&T meeting should be, as those children write their own, and are not prompted or motivated by their parents in the bearing/reading of their testimony. Just as a sincere Spirit-filled talk can be given when it is read, so can a testimony.
My Spirit-borne testimony includes the historicity of the Savior’s visit in 3rd Nephi, and JS’s first vision. The knowledge that those things actually occurred flowed into me from a source that I had previous experience with and knew to be divine.
Geoff, you’ve been a member for at least 9, going on 10 years now. I don’t believe you are rightfully a “recent” convert anymore. 🙂
DMM, you’re right that actions speak louder than words. But there are times and places where words are appropriate. Some things just need to be stated for the record, or for the benefit of the speaker, or the benefit of the listeners. It’s also been said that testimonies have a short shelf-life. I agree with that, not only in terms of verbally repeating them in order to refresh them, but moreso in terms of continuing to be on the receiving end of influences and information from the Holy Ghost.
I’ve often told people that I believe. But that is in the sense that knowing encompasses believing. For me to be fully descriptive of my testimony of JS and the Book of Mormon, to tell the bigger picture, and not pull any punches, I would feel somewhat obligated to use the word know, not believe.
Granted, there are more layers and other religious/spiritual/church subjects which I do only/merely believe in, which are laid upon the foundation of the testimony/knowing part. And as a human, I have not always lived up to what I know to be true. But I have to give “props” to that knowledge and testimony (and its source.) I did not figure it, that foundational “knowing part,” out on my own.
There is also the thing about Jeremiah 20:9, “Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.” (Italics in KJV.) The JPS Tanakh translation renders the last phrase “I could not hold it in, I was helpless.” The KJV/JPS-added “his word” could also be infered to be referring to “his name”.
In that sense many testimony bearers in the LDS church feel compelled by the Holy Spirit or the “truth that is within them” to make a declaration of testimony. Bearing verbal testimony “relieves the pressure” so to speak.
As for me, all evidence to the contrary of that foundational knowing-part, gets put under the heading of “Well, gee, if that (the contrary evidence) is true, I don’t know enough of the bigger picture yet to explain how that can be reconciled with what I know to be true.”
Over the years, the trend has been for church apologists to discover more of the bigger picture, or put forth reasonable scenarios, that do reconcile apparently conflicting evidence, and to counter conflicting assertions. And of course the critics merely move on to a new (or recycle an old) topic, and say “Aha! Now look at this!” After a while, I start to say “Ho hum. Same thing, different day.”
My investigations of claims of contrary evidence (off and on for over 25 years) lead me to conclude they fall in 3 categories:
1. The contrary evidence has sometimes been falsified, or the assertions made simply aren’t true.
2. The contrary evidence or assertions are partially true, and the bigger picture reveals that such evidence/assertions are misinterpreted or misrepresented.
3. The contrary evidence or assertions are true, but in the big picture, and under correct understanding/interpretation, they don’t imply or mean that LDS truth claims are incorrect.
The beauty of Spirit-borne and Spirit-confirmed testimony is that everyone is theoretically capable of receiving the truth that way. Everyone doesn’t have to be a gospel scholar or religious researcher in order to figure it out. We don’t have to go from church to church and religion to religion and exhaust all possibilities before taking a decision.
The bottom line is that my divinely sourced and communicated testimony (that the Spirit bore to me) trumps (at least in my mind and heart), or should trump, whatever human sources throw at me. I also acknowledge that not everyone seeks that divine source, and of those who do seek, not everyone encounters that divine source.
#18 Brian. threadjacking to me is not a big deal just part of the conversation or I guess I could ban myself 🙂
#19 Bookslinger, as always, I am stunned at the depth of your knowledge, spirit and willingness to share. Thank you so very much. Lovely.
@JA Benson
I never understand people who say “There are only two possibilities”! As human beings, we must have brains that work in different ways. My brain says “There are many possiblilities!”
@JA Benson