Some Additional Thoughts on the Evangelical Anti-Romney Candidates

Ginger White’s Story and Herman Cain

First, read this article here. It’s enough to make me want to weep for the children of men.

It wasn’t long ago that we all talked about rating the candidates. At that point I had already decided that, based on the available evidence, that Herman Cain was probably guilty of sexual harassment so I couldn’t vote for him in good conscience.

A lot of new information has come out since then, all of it bad news for Cain. I’m honestly curious what Rameumpton thinks that this point given the new evidence to evaluate. (If he still believes in Cain, that’s cool. This isn’t a challenge, just a question.)

Me personally? I’ve gone from believing Cain ‘probably’ did it to feeling that if I was in a court of law and I was a juror that I’d have no issue (at least given the current state of the evidence) convicting him as guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

Of course new evidence could easily change my mind. But I have my doubts counter evidence is on the way.

Ginger White’s testimony, when bolstered by the other four women accusing Cain of sexual harassment plus the fact that his wife didn’t even know he was financially supporting Ginger White, is certainly enough to convince me beyond reasonable doubt that Herman Cain is a bona-fide monster. Continue reading

Grace, Obedience, Salvation

I used to get very frustrated with my companions on my mission. Every time a Born Again Christian would announce that “Mormons believe they have to work their way to heaven” my companion would inevitably argue back “Well you believe that after you accept Christ you can commit any sin you want and still go to heaven.” Trying to separate the combatants and send them to their corners proved impossible. 

But Protestant Christians do not believe a person can accept Christ and then go out and commit unrepentant sin and still go to heaven [1] any more than Mormons believe they have to work their way to heaven. [2] But what is the difference between the Protestant Christian view of grace and works and the Mormon one?

Pat answers do not help here. Mormons claiming that that they are saved by grace “after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23) implies that Protestant Christians think one doesn’t really have to be serious about their commitment to Christ by putting in effort. But my direct experience with them contradicts this belief. Protestants usually do believe one must accept Jesus as Lord and begin to follow His commandments with sincerity. I believe Protestants and Evangelicals, while perhaps rejecting the language, in principle and practice accept the teachings of 2 Nephi 25:23. [3] Continue reading

The Relations Between Evangelicals and Mormons

Ms. Jack is someone I think I could get along with because she is obviously full of integrity. She is an Evangelical that married a Mormon and is now an active part of the bloggernacle. I certainly don’t agree with her on many things. In fact, this post will be a series of (partial) disagreements with one of her comments.

But from what I’ve seen of her comments online, she is making an honest attempt to understand Mormons. Though I feel she often fails in her quest — I would ask all to remember how incredibly difficult it is to get past our own intrenched meaning-memes for the sake of understanding someone else’s. Ms Jack rocks when it comes to making the sincere attempt to communicate and understand.

Consider, for example, this post from T&S a while back.

It led to a discussion about why Evangelicals call Mormons ‘not Christian.’ Ms. Jack said the following on this subject:

I would say that Mormons consider themselves the only true Christians and Protestants return fire by arguing that Mormons aren’t really Christians in the first place.

Please note that I am not endorsing the “Mormons aren’t Christians” argument. That’s not my position by a long shot. I’m just saying it isn’t a one-way thing. Giving lip service to my Christianity whilst insisting that my faith is corrupt and incomplete, my baptism into Jesus Christ is invalid, and I’m not indwelt by the Holy Spirit (i. e. I don’t have the gift of the Holy Ghost) isn’t exactly a flattering assessment of my faith.

 

 

The very fact that Ms. Jack is willing to not call Mormons “non-Christians” should make it clear that Ms Jack is sincerely trying to understand Mormonism and is unwilling to settle for lame platitudes and pat answers. Continue reading

What Alternative Is There to Discomfort?

Back in my Mormon Matters days, Stephen Marsh an excellent post on helping people be comfortable in Church. Amongst other examples, he used the example of homosexuality. He also recommended John Dehlin’s (at the time recent) post that asked “what can we do to reduce suicide amongst people with a natural same sex attraction who grow up in the LDS culture?”

These are important questions. I agree with Stephen’s sentiment that the first round of answers aren’t likely to be what we end up with. Despite protests to the contrary, I think it’s obvious the LDS Church is trying their best here within their doctrinal framework and that with time better solutions will be found. 

One poster who has a homosexual son made an interesting comment that sparked a question in my mind. They said:

My wife and I have felt increasingly uncomfortable at church the past two months. It is not unexpected because of we live in California with our gay son and we listen to weekly admonitions re: prop 8. An anti-prop 8 TV ad has been running the last few weeks. It references a woman unsuccessfully trying to marry her fiance. Various things at the wedding ceremony make it so the wedding does not happen. It closes with a comment something like “What if you could not marry the one you love?

With that, a sister in our ward stood up in gospel doctrine (the class I teach) during the weekly prop 8 request for action and talked about the “subtle, deceitful people” doing “that TV ad”. She added that “we need to remember what they are really all about.” Continue reading